Talking H & M: Race and Royalty - Not Particularly Fashionable

In the final episode of the season, Shannon and Shawna discuss the predicament of the beloved prince and princess of Sussex. Harry and Meghan (H & M) may no longer be addressed with their royal titles, but this is of their own volition. In an effort to escape the craziness of publicity and tabloids, the royals have decided to take a step back from their roles. Was the move in reaction to a racial backlash? We discuss this and how it applies to us who are not royal. 

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Transcript

Shawna  00:00
Hey fam, we have reached the end of season one. I cannot believe how fast the time has gone. And I just want to thank you so much for all of your continued support. Thanks for listening. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for subscribing. If you haven't subscribed, don't forget to subscribe because I want you to get news when we are back at it for season two. 

Quick note about season two, this is big news. Tried and True, we'll have a new name. Same great show same great content, new guests new co-host also new title. So be on the lookout for the new title, it will be our true colors. More on that to come and season two. So stay tuned to find out the story behind the new name. But important that you note that it'll still look the same. You'll still find me on Apple podcasts, Google, Spotify to all of the places where you get your podcasts. But you'll be looking under the name our true colors. 

Also, I'm excited that I'll be launching the website. It's been in the works for a while I'll be sharing that news too. As always, you can reach out to me share your news. Tell me what topics you'd like to talk about. If you know someone that would be a great guest or you want to be a guest you can reach out to me to you can call me at 202-670-3323. Or if you'd like to, you can send me an email. That's no problem. Just reach out to the new email, which is truecolors@shawnagann.com you can still hit me up at tribe @shawnagann.com that one works too. But look out for the new title our true colors and you can use the email true colors@shawnagann.com. 

Also there's Facebook page, you can find me on Facebook, look up our truecolors. I'll see you there too. And last but not least still looking to feature new artists, people who want to get their vibe out there if you or someone you know wants to have their music featured on the show. Hit me up, let me know. I'll be glad to feature it. And now without further ado, I bring you the last episode of season one. Enjoy.

Intro  02:18
Welcome to tribe and true hosted by Shawna Gann. Join her as she explores the challenges of being a racial riddle, an ethnic and cultural conundrum. Let's dive in.

Shawna  02:34
Our last episode. Yeah,

Shannon  02:35
I know. It went by quick.

Shawna  02:38
I really did. But I'm glad that you that you did this with me. 

Shannon  02:44
Yes, it has been fun

Shawna  02:43
It has. But I'm like wow, it feels weird. I feel like I'll still be wanting to like text you stuff. Oh, my gosh, look at this, 

Shannon  02:52
Which is fine. Right.

Shawna  02:57
Well, thanks. But just let me know if you're like, Okay, shut up.

Shannon 03:00
No, I think it's a good project. I'm glad to be on it where I can be.

Shawna  03:04
Thank you. Well, I thought it would be interesting to talk about what's going on with the Royals.

Shannon  03:14
I mean, yeah, sure.

Shawna  03:15
Have you been following it at all?

Shannon  03:17
You know, I follow it some I know that she they, you know, Prince Harry, and Markle decided that they're going to step away from the royal family. So I guess I'm up to date on that.

Shawna  03:32
Yeah, that's basically the latest. But what interested me first, I saw a Facebook text or not text when you call like a Facebook post in a group chat. I can't even think not a group chat in a Facebook group, somebody posted something along the lines of all of this is because Megan's mixed. And they wouldn't be going through all of this if she hadn't been receiving so much hate. And I just really wasn't sure. Like, I haven't responded. I don't typically respond to stuff like that. But I was like, Huh. But is it because of that, because I thought it just had to do more with not having their privacy and whatever, because I know there's like some personal stuff with between Harry and his brother and stuff like that. So I wasn't so sure that it all had to do with her being mixed. Or even maybe some of it even thought like some of it might have to do with her just being American, not even right. You know, the next part. The premise of that post is basically to say that Harry and Megan are having to deal with the backlash, and they actually wrote blacklash. I was like, Oh, so having to deal with the backlash of just her identity, right? And whether it's identifying as biracial or just black basically a person of color and to be fair I mean, I'm not there. I don't see all the local news or, you know, I'm not in the thick of it. But just from my perspective, I haven't seen a lot of it having to do with

Shannon  05:09
Right

Shawna  05:10
Her race,

Shannon  05:11
Right. 

Shawna  05:12
In fact, I thought she was kind of celebrated for a while.

Shannon  05:14
Yeah, I think there's so many other variables that are playing into how she's being treated. You know, maybe underneath the surface a little, maybe it is because she has, you know, a little bit of color in her. But there's so many other things. I mean, one, like you said, She's an American. So I think that's kind of like a she's an actress in America. So I just think like, a different kind of celebrity profiles definitely clash. Megan was married before. So that's no,

Shawna  05:46
So she's divorced

Shannon  05:49
Like she is divorced, which is, I think that's like a No, no, like, you're not, you're supposed to have someone pure. Right. So I mean, those are big variables, just coming into it before you even like say, oh, is she black? Is she? Why is she? whatever color? She is? 

Shawna  06:05
Right? I didn't even talk about intersectionality. Right.

Shannon  06:09
She had the cards stacked against her before it had even began. Mm hmm. And I mean, I think that some of the, the Royal protocol, some of that's out of its outdated, right, you know, it's been around for a really long time, not out for a long time. But some of the standards that they hold the Royals to, isn't the way we live now. You know, and so why would it be fair for them to have to upheld this when no one else is?

Shannon  06:40
I mean, that's interesting. I mean, we won't, we don't have to go too deep down this path. But what you're saying makes me think about us and the Constitution and amendments and how people interpret those things. Right? It's the same as signing to agree with the statement that all men are created equal. And using the word men and knowing good and well that at the time of that signing, great people were not treated equally. It makes me think about that, like, how much

Shannon  07:14
Is up there for interpretation? And how much is in stone?

Shawna  07:20
Mm mm Yeah, and what needs to be reevaluated,

Shannon  07:23
But I feel like this stuff is in stone, it just hasn't changed in hundreds of years, or, you know, 50, 

Shawna  07:32
Right? Well, I guess that's what I mean, like, what needs to be reevaluated, right? Like, maybe we need to take a step back and look at where we are in society now. And what makes sense for where we are now. So and, and I just, I guess the reason I wanted to talk about them and and, and you're right, like, when you look at this through the lens of intersectionality, holy cow, like talk about your intersections, she's got a lot of aspects that she brings that she has to defend, or maybe she shouldn't have to defend. They just are who she is. Right. And it's played a part in to how she's been treated. But I guess I, the reason I thought it would be good for us to talk about is because I wonder how often people of color, no matter how they identify, in terms of being modern racial, biracial, multiracial, however, I wonder how often people of color attribute some hardships or challenges that they face or that others face and they'd like to defend to racial discrimination? Or racism, right, in general, 

Shannon  08:41
I think that happens all the time. You know, sometimes it's like, I don't know, it's, I think it happens a lot. And just being, I guess, open minded, you have to look at it at different lenses. But not everyone does that, you know, I feel like you see it a lot. Like in the classroom, right? I mean, for me, this is out of my own experience. I've had classmates who are like, Oh, well, they gave me this grade, because they don't like black people, or I've had it even gay people. Like, you know, it's not because my work was bad at you know, it's an outside force. It's, it's kind of like a comforting mechanism, actually, to say it's not my work, it's my, it's how I present.

Shawna  09:22
So a way to self soothe, or, or not have to accept responsibility for some other area that you may be needed to step up a little bit more, right. It's just like attributed to that

Shannon  09:33
It to that external locus of control. Like, I guess that's the psychology term for it as far as Yeah, you know, it's not that I did a bad job. It's that, you know, this outside factor that I can't control. I think it happens a lot. And I think it just depends on who you are, right? Because a lot of the times I do the opposite. Or you know, not that I get discriminated against a lot, but, you know, it's like, oh, Well, this is what happened. And it's like, know that they actually were a little racist or you know, whatever, discriminating.

Shawna  10:07
Do you try and get the benefit of the doubt?

Shannon  10:09
I always try to give the benefit of the doubt, because I'd like to think most people are past that, you know, and then you get examples. And you're like, oh, okay, where's, you know, we're still in this? 

Shawna  10:24
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just find it interesting. I mean, like, the discussions, there's a whole lot of people I mean, right now, this thread has nearly 200. 

Shannon  10:36
Wow, 

Shawna  10:37
Responses. Mm hmm. And there, it's like really kind of down the middle where people feel like, well, I shouldn't say down the middle. Here's what I observed. There are people who are like, Oh my gosh, right. Like she's totally been mistreated, and how wrong is this? It's so messed up. And then there are the people who are like, well, maybe they just want their privacy. And then there's like, the group of people who are like, I didn't even know this was going on, but then they jump on one or the other side, like they jump on. And it seems like the majority are like, Oh, my gosh, I didn't know this was happening. And that's right. Like, how dare people treat them this way? And no wonder they act like, right, you know, so they just kind of hear the conversation and kind of jump to that conclusion. And, I mean, so far, I haven't heard Harry or Megan, either. I haven't read. I haven't read anything that they've written or anything that attributes their decision to her being mistreated because of race?

Shannon  11:35
Yeah, it's really hard to say, I do think that the media in England as much as I know, right, I don't know, I don't know that much. But I do think they target her as far as when she was pregnant. So within this past year, she touched her belly a lot, people or people scrutinized her for touching her belly. She, you know, it's like stupid little things like that. That I'm like, I don't think that would have happened to Kate. But is that because cage white? Or is that because Kate was pure from the stuff, you know, pure. 

Shawna  12:12
All the other. I know what you mean? Yeah. Like all of those other Kate doesn't? She didn't come with all of those different things that Megan brought,

Shannon  12:23
Right. I was gonna say I think Kate has even broke royal protocol. But it's not. It's not picked up, you know, and put under a microscope as much as Megan's is. Is that because she's black? I don't? I don't necessarily think so. I think she had the card stacked before it started.

Shawna  12:44
Yeah. And to be fair, look at Harry, he was always the problem child, if you will, growing right. He always felt like an outsider. He never conformed, completely like his brother did. And, you know, they, they talk a lot about the loss of their mother so early in their lives. And that had a tremendous effect on him, too. So I think the two of them, like they seem like a fantastic match for each other. To be honest, it's just a shame that it's their lives are so public and right every single decision they make, which is probably why they're making the decision, or why they've declared what they've declared and what they want to do. But I just I guess the thing is, I struggled with the idea that she or let me just say that they that their family is experiencing such a hard time, just because she's a person of color. That's the only thing and so maybe I'm more like you or I tend to give the benefit of the doubt. Like I'm like, I don't think that we should jump to that, because there's so many other factors. But then what happens when you're in a conversation and people other people of color are are like upset because you don't agree with them? Like, it makes me feel like I don't want to betray my other people. But you know, like other people of color or how they, you know, or downplay anything, when maybe we should be focusing on it more. It's just hard for me to find that that line,

Shannon  14:23
Right? I mean, I think it's their right to feel, whatever the way they want, I can lay my cards out in you know, say, Well, you know, XYZ and they can believe what they want. And

Shawna  14:37
I mean, that's true, too. But what I guess I'm using the story of Megan and Harry, like as a representation of other things that happen like Like you said, when when people tend to use an aspect of their identity, to claim the victim for things that they really should be taking responsibility for. And in this in this case, I'm not saying there's anything to blame. So there's nothing for them to take responsibility for it. Right. And Harry, I mean, I'm just talking about playing that race card. Like, should we be playing it right now? Right. And should I be criticized if I don't think they should be playing it right now?

Shannon  15:18
Right, 

Shawna  15:19
You know, 

Shannon  15:20
And then I also think just being Americans, we're, we're pretty far removed from this. Just, you know, we, you know, if we were in England talking about this, it might be a different story, right? 

Shawna  15:32
Oh, no, I mean, I agree. And so that's why I mean, like, my point and talking about this, I'm taking it as an example of times when we tend to jump on any given situation, and label it as racism, or as racial discrimination or prejudice or something like that. Like, I'm just using their example, or their story as an example of that. 

Shannon  15:56
Right.

Shawna  15:57
And it just makes me think about that, in general, let's say, how often do we assume that things are happening because of how we look, when there could be other reasons? And how do you reconcile that?

Shannon  16:10
It's a big question. 

Shawna  16:13
Yeah, I know. See, I'm always thinking about stuff like that, though. Because, you know, I maybe it's the Libra and may I don't know, I feel like I have to have balance. So I'm always weighing both sides, perhaps. But I'm not sure. Anyway. Well, I guess with that. I mean, we've had a lot of big questions this season.

Shannon  16:36
Yeah. Yeah.

Shawna  16:39
Is there anything that stood out to you the most any one topic or something that you're taking away? 

Shannon  16:46
It was just really refreshing over the season, just to get your experience and compare it to my experience, just to see that things? You know, they're different, but they're still some of the same things that are happening. 

Shawna  17:01
Yeah. 

Shannon  17:02
I hope that was interesting. We had some really great guests on the show this year. So learned a lot from Sarah, and all the doctors you had write about DNA and how that could play a role into in like, identifying yourself and just large scope. It's been great. I've learned a lot. And it's stuff I'm able to take into conversations once I leave. So leave the you know, talk show, with my friends at school, and whatever. So I think it's really interesting. It's been fun. I love it.

Shawna  17:36
Cool. It has been interesting. And I've enjoyed it, too. I'm super, super happy that you're able to get it off the ground. And I have enjoyed your perspective, too. It's been not just our age difference, but also our geography and kind of where we are in life. And even with our perspective programs, and so on. So yeah, it's been really good. Lots of good, good talks. And I it makes me think, going forward, like, we got to, we have to kind of circle back and answer some of these big questions somehow. Or at least address them again, and try to get some different perspectives, but I don't know. I hope you'll come back some time. 

Shannon  18:22
I would love to. 

Shawna  18:23
Happy awesome.

Shannon  18:24
To DC and love to do some more, because that was fun, too.

Shawna  18:28
Heck, yeah. I'll be like, Yay, Special Edition. So awesome. Well, I guess it's time to, to close things. out, so I know. All right. Yeah. Well, thanks again for everything. And yeah, we'll have to. I'm sure we'll do this again. 

Shannon  19:00
Right. We'll be in touch. 

Shawna  19:01
For sure. All right. Well take care of Shannon, 

Shannon  19:05
You too. I'll talk to you. 

Shawna  19:12
Alright. See ya. Well, that's the episode for this week and our last episode of the season. Thank you so much for joining. Please remember to subscribe so that you don't miss out when season two starts, I want you to be able to join us again. And of course, share so that others can join the combos to Don't forget the show we'll be back under a new name. Tribe and True is becoming our true colors. So keep a lookout for that. In the meantime, please support the show by leaving a rating and a review and hit me up with a message if you'd like to hear something next season. Or if you want to be a guest or you know someone that would be a great guest. Today we're going to go out to the sounds of Xavier featuring vocals by Tom full transparency Xavier is my son So I'm super happy to share his music with you. I know you'll love it. This song is called bad habits. And check the show notes for links on how to find more of his music and some other great stuff that he's doing. If you know someone or if you are someone that would like to have your music featured, let me know. I'm always looking to feature new artists. In the meantime, be safe out there y'all. Remember to share a smile with someone and find an opportunity to make someone feel welcome. love y'all. Talk to you soon.

Music   20:32
In a glass box,
your name has been,
going around. Dinner respond as overbridge goes.
On the first one
to go. I kind agree we make connections, I go aaah ahh
No what I should do
I didn’t get you on the first one 
I'm sure I'm super insecure.
Tryna pretend I enjoying this again
Know what I should do 
You just drive through the side far too soon
I got bad habits I don’t know where they come from, 

Watch me tripping through
I can be a loner I feel aaa aaah
I got bad habits I don’t know if I’m in trouble,
I got bad habits I don’t know where they come from
I got bad habit I don’t know if I’m in trouble