I'm Gumbo, Baby! - An Exploration of Creole Culture and Identity

Why should you make red beans and rice on Mondays?

How did okra make it to the US?

As we near the end of the second season, Jason and I take the opportunity to chat with our Aunties and learn about these Creole facts and more! Listen in to this warm, heartfelt convo with Aunt Bianca and Aunt Daphne and immerse yourself in all that is lagniappe. We round out this season's theme of family as we continue our journey in identity as we embrace family, food, and creole culture in this packed episode. Enjoy!

Laissez les bons temps rouler!
Let the good times roll!

If this is your first time with OTC, check out EPISODE 1: START HERE for more background on the show.

Our True Colors is sponsored by True Culture Coaching & Consulting. Head to our website to find out how True Culture Coaching and Consulting can support you and your organization, and subscribe to our LinkedIn Newsletter, The Culture Clinic, for more great content. You can find us at truecultureconsulting.com where you can also contact us to schedule a free consultation.

Transcript

Intro 00:06
Welcome to our True Colors hosted by Shawna Gann join her as she explores the challenges of being a racial riddle, an ethnic Enigma, and a cultural conundrum. Let's dive in. 

Shawna  00:21
Hey, J, what's up?

Jason  00:23
Hello, how are you wait a minute, you asked me what was up, didn't you?

Shawna  00:28
I did. But that's cool. In America that's like the American way. I don't know. Somehow it's a greeting.

Jason  00:37
I'm okay. I’m good. Thank you

Shawna  00:40
Good, me too I certainly cannot complain. Doing all right. So listen, this is a pretty exciting episode.

Jason  00:49
I agree. I agree. Very special people coming up.

Shawna  00:52
Super special people. And it's also really cool. Because throughout like, the whole season, we've been talking about our identities and pulling in the Creole piece and all of that stuff, but never having really grown up in the culture. Oh, no, I'm really looking forward to learning more. And plus, I love these ladies. Absolutely. I

Jason  01:15
Absolutely, look forward to eating more.

Shawna  01:19
I mean, okay, I guess I always look forward to even more. I mean, that's been a little bit of an issue during like, the COVID days, to be honest with you, I need to probably not eat more. But no denying that's good food.

Jason  01:33
Oh, food, the only issue with Creole food isn't running out.

Shawna  01:36
Agreed, all right, you're ready to dive in. And this episode, Jason and I get to talk to our aunts, our aunt Bianca, and our aunt Daphne. It's really good to be great because they are going to talk to us about Creole culture, what it was like for them as they grew up in the Creole culture and school as a little bit on what it's like, in other places, great food and, and all that jazz. So we invite you to come along and enjoy this journey, this very delicious, food filled journey with us enjoy. We've been talking about, you know, having Creole heritage, but at least I know very, very little. And Jason, I've been talking about wanting to know more. Even you know, even with ourselves and exploring, and one day taking a trip. But yeah, this is just time for us to spend with you.

Jason  02:33
We gon get down there

Shawna  02:35
We will we will.

Aunt  02:35
Yeah, just so you know. It's hot and humid there also.

Shawna  02:39
Yeah, that's why we're not gonna go in the summer.

Jason  02:41
Or we're not going summer

Shawna  02:45
We determined that already.

Jason  02:49
I think, ....my phone just to keep watching it all the time. Just that's how we found Oh, yeah. And I watch how hot it is. So Oh, no. 90 in the 90% humidity. No good.

Bianca 03:06
Right. Yes, exactly. It is and humidity is something else. You know, you have to get up early in the morning to get done anything you you have to do outside. Because you know once that sun is at its peak. You're not a happy camper anymore.

Shawna  03:25
It has everybody kind of holed up inside during the day and

Bianca 03:30
Yeah, if yes. 

Daphne  03:31
Basically you unless you unless you're okay and you're in you deal well with humid weather. It's best to stay inside in in air conditioning but going out you feel it your body starts sweating. It's it's just the natural. But you know that already living there in Virginia and Ohio. You feel the temperatures and having lived in Bay St. Louis for several years. That's just it's just what you're used to feeling when you walk out because you're so close to the Gulf.

Shawna  04:07
So my brain tells me that Louisiana would be far worse than where I am in Northern Virginia.

Daphne 04:15
Your brain?

Shawna  04:15
My brain?

Bianca  04:17
Definitely. Yeah. With the humidity. And if there's if there's a weather, this type of a weather event approaching especially and during hurricane season, you feel it 

Jason  04:31
About our family. where we came from and everything. 

Daphne  04:35
Definitely you take you take a lot of that because you actually did a lot of work on obviously incest 

Jason  04:43
Oh no that's another story. Oh no

Daphne 04:52
I don’t remember that story. Now it’s it’s a good story. We have a family that Rich in cultures, different cultures, your grandmother on our side, my mother's mother was actually born in Bay St. Louis in Mississippi. My mother was born in New Orleans, Louisiana. A lot of that family, the Mississippi family and the New Orleans family there. They're all Creole. And when you say Creole, what do you guys understand Creel? As far as that is concerned, what do you see in your mind's eye? racially?

Shawna  05:36
Okay go first?

Jason  05:37
Okay, I can my understanding is a combination of African, like French ancestry, some from Latin ancestry? This is a nice mix, you know?

Daphne  05:53
And you will be correct.

Shawna  05:57
Yeah, that was gonna be exactly what I, what I was gonna say, I know, the French is there for sure. But um, I saw I saw somewhere that Creole kind of became one of those descriptors that began to mean I don't know if it began to mean this or if it was the other way around. But it just meant like foreigner actually, like someone who was from Europe, or had European ancestry, but was born in America, like born in the US? 

Daphne  06:25
Yep correct. Yes, a creole would be someone of either Spanish or French ancestry born in Louisiana, born, you know, in at that particular time, the Creoles of color would be those of African ancestors, maybe from the West Indies, born in Louisiana, and many of them would not have been slaves, they would be free people of color, Creoles of color. And that's where we are family would be derived from however, you know, there would be some mixtures depending on, you know, where, where you're from our family. On the death side, I saw European and African ancestry actually traced to a woman who was the slave out of Virginia, coming from Virginia to it would have been Indiana, it was really interesting to see that family member and I was so excited to have having found that family member on that side. And then I looked at on mom's side of the Louisiana Creole and the Mississippi Creole. To see that they were there at the beginning of the 19th century, the family was tracing the family to that timeframe. And to see that some of them even during the time of probably late 1700s into the early 1800s. can see the family links in those family names that are there. And some of them from Alabama, into Mississippi, and the little Mississippi in that area. Both same family names have been there all that time. It's so interesting when you see that, and a lot of people say are you guys Cajun? I said no, we're Creole. Creole is not a race. It's a culture. Because racially it's Africa for our family. It's European ancestry that self-French and English and Spanish, but also a beautiful mix of many African nations in the fact and so we truly are land yet. 

Shawna  08:51
Little bit this little bit that

Daphne  08:53
We really are we we are lovely racial mixture, a lovely culture of music. That's the folk music of zydeco and the jazz that came in through New Orleans. That's the Creoles that brought that in. Right. And, and culturally, artists, I mean, you think of the guy who wrote Count of Monte Cristo, Alexander Dumas, Creole and but our family, the Crudos, the Xiong, you know, the family name that comes, that's our, that's our heritage, and there's those Mississippi Crudos and then there's the, the Louisiana Crudo, that family is still there, they still they still reside in that part of the country. If you meet, you're gonna see people that look like us. You know, that'll be the first off. 

Shawna  09:52
I mean, you, but that happens. I see people sometimes I'm like, Oh, they could be family and then also because of ancestry DNA since I did that, and anyone, well, anyone who wants to put in their linkage or whatever, like I get notifications that I first thing I do is open their picture to see how similar we look. It's so yeah. Oh my gosh, it's crazy.

Daphne 10:18
Yeah. So yeah, you're you're, if you were like, it really happened to me, you know, I, we drove down to Bay St. Louis, Missouri early in the morning. And it was in the cool of the morning, you know, so everybody was just starting to browse and you know, get up. And, you know, my mom, my mom was away. And then I looked outside. And I saw I saw Bernadette walking down the middle of it. They love sidewalks. Everybody go walking streets, right. But I said, Ernie, hey, Bernie, where are you going? Yeah, I'm just talking to her. Like, I know, that's my sister. You know? And, and my mom said, Bergen is in the room fleet. And I said, Oh, is this Phil is Michael girl. My cousin's daughter.

Jason  11:19
Wow.

Daphne  11:19
It is our just like Bernadette. You know, I mean, it was, it was just amazing. And mommy said, she told me she said, You know, that's how you know your family because the gene genetic material is so strong, it doesn't deviate from that original pattern. That's not too often, you know, you're going to keep seeing the same features, even to the set pocket. You know. 

Jason  11:54
I'll talk about that.

Shawna  11:55
This is how this is how I know how true this is. And even even artificial intelligence gets confused. And Daphne can attest to this. So Facebook, and you may know the story already. I don't know. So you know how Facebook lets you tag pictures. If you put up a photo, right? tag somebody. And sometimes it will suggest like if it knows your friend list or whatever it'll say like, it'll guess who it is. So it was a photo of chatted me. I don't know where you're going somewhere. We took picture outside and I was uploading it. And it put a little square around it, suggesting that I tag it as Daphne Collins.

Bianca  12:41
Yeah. 

Shawna  12:44
I was like, oh my gosh, I screenshotted it. And I think I sent it to that dad. And I think Cerise was like, What? Like?

Bianca  12:53
It's funny cuz Cerise and Brett said she looks more like you mom. Like she's more Your thoughts? And

Shawna  13:01
I tell you, sometimes I look in the mirror or I see a picture of me. I think we have the exact smile. I don't know. 

Bianca  13:11
You do yeah. 

Shawna  13:12
And I'm like, Oh, my gosh. But everyone said that everyone would say Oh, she she looks just like Daph or I almost said your nickname. 

Jason  13:19
Exactly same smile

Shawna  13:20
I don't know 

Jason  13:22
What you talking about.

Shawna  13:25
But where? 

Daphne 13:26
Jason Jason don't feel left out you have you have a cousin, Mike. Kevin is older than you. But if you can imagine him, if you can imagine yourself a little older, you can imagine him younger. You're going to see it. I'm going to find a picture of him and put it up on Facebook. And you all look and see. I'll take you both 

Jason  13:49
Get out of here. Wow. 

Daphne 13:51
Kevin looks exactly like you're going to look when you get older.

Shawna  13:55
Oh my gosh.

Daphne  13:56
Yeah. And he is a five star chef. 

Shawna  14:04
Oh, yeah. 

Daphne 14:05
So Jason, look, I mean, your love for cooking for you know, food is something. Something that definitely runs in the family 

Jason  14:14
In the blood. 

Daphne  14:15
It's in the blood a bed?

Shawna  14:17
Well, maybe since Jason was cooking dinner. A good place to start is in terms of culture is the food. I know I've had some mighty mighty good food and Aunt Bianca.

Shawna  14:33
Like my children, my children dream about this.

Daphne  14:37
Oh, yes. I have pictures to prove it. I got a picture of Jason sitting with a tray and frozen like Nobody. Nobody, 

Jason  14:56
Y’all like 20 minutes and he sat there. 

Daphne  14:58
He said And I think your oldest daughter kept flitting by and you know, like, okay, go go play first fret crab. That's what it was. If he was gonna crack the crab or he could try that. Yeah, I was just going to add this, the food is actually I think that speaks lot for the Creole culture. This this is just what I observed, you know, my family growing up and then, you know, once we got old enough to start going to see relatives, I would see an extension of what we were doing with people who are family and what really amazed me, since you can jump in on this one was my first time visiting Bay St. Louis. And it was like, automatically you just, it's party, it's time to party. It's like you don't need to think about it you just start getting ready. And I remember seeing big barrels of fish outside. We kept walking around you know, wanting to jump in the barrel. But honey, they fried this fish. They find that fish and may be a great big fries to go with it and all kinds of good stuff. 

Bianca  16:24
Well, I can give you my perspective on it. When I think of Creole culture, and food automatically we go to Gumbo and growing up grandmother, first fixing it and having it as a child growing up and you had the choice of either a seafood gumbo or you had the chicken gumbo, and in Bay St. Louis, growing up, I was a teenager of course that was a typical weekly thing for a lot of people there for Creoles that's the main staple in your in your meal. You're going to have either a red gumbo or brown gumbo red being because you have a tomato base gumbo where you're going to have the kind like like we fix this you know it's it's more of a brown gumbo or an okra gumbo with okra in it or without Okra depending on what you what you like. The slaves when they were did the crossover when they came over from Africa. It was the slaves that originally bought the seeds for Okra. They brought it over they smuggled it over in their hair. And Okra was harvested and grown there in the south. And that was originally introduced into the gumbo. And gumbo is that's an African word you see. So you you look at how good okra is. Some people don't like it. Some people do. And okra is used in many things like succotash or other dishes. But it was the African children those that were brought into slavery who originally bought okra over into the United States. I just interesting. 

Shawna  18:10
And Bianca had me by the powder. What's the powder filet? Philo but it's that powder

Bianca  18:16
That comes from the sassafrass tree. Yeah,

Shawna  18:19
Is that if you don't have okra or are you supposed to use them both?

Bianca 18:22
Know that that's the okra okra is a thickening agent also though

Shawna  18:30
that's what I thought does like Yeah, yeah starchy but it's got the same it makes it the same sort of consistency as when you pick as I bought.

Bianca  18:39
Well, some people like the lay in their gumbo and they choose not to have okra because some people don't like okra. Now I don't put filet in my okra gumbo. I would put, you know, like you said that you smoosh the okra because some people don't like the seeds. It's kind of lucky or that slimy icky, icky. So they you know it takes a while to mush that down and and put that in there but it does stick in the okra and the fee lady does a different type of thickening and you add that just before you're about to eat that gumbo got lumos first row but you know it's it's funny because I remember reading in a in an old Creole cookbook years ago, how the Creole kitchen they would have the pot and it was an endless pot that would never go out the kettle would always go because the Creoles in New Orleans would have the SWAT race at night in their top Creole town home. And the guests would come at around the nine o'clock hour in the evening. And that pot of gumbo was always going. Imagine that. Every day you come to that house that gumbo was going there. It's always fresh gumbo. Every now and then I feel like making a Protestant Creole and I'll do that. It's been a bit because it's just me. It's so we don't make a big pot anything unless it's a gathering depending on who's coming, you know,

Shawna  20:10
when you need me to be there. I'm just saying. Tell me what it is cloud is gone and I'll be on the plane.

Daphne  20:24
But the thing about gumbo, at least in our family, and since you probably agree with this, it's it's Christmas or holiday or big family gathering, you know, you're going to have a huge pot of gumbo and it's going to include crab and shrimp, oysters, chicken beef, on Zooey sausage, it's just a little bit of everything 

Shawna  20:50
I think Jason may buy right now. 

Daphne  20:52
And it's, it's all about just putting it in and cooking it for a long time. Making sure you have everything chopped and ready to go. And if you're going to cook a gumbo, you got to put the time in the hours of the cooker, you know that that's that's the main staple in the family. That's a main staple in any Creole culture or any household but I tell you just straight up with Creoles in their cooking. You have things like gumbo shrimp creole What is it the softshell crab? Any type of jumbo Elia it's everything in anything and 

Bianca  21:42
That's how I eat now. Something as simple as red beans and rice. deviled me 

Daphne  20:54
That's a typical Monday staple more late than Mondays you have red beans and rice that's if you ever ask any average person whether New Orleans or Mississippi they'll in what do you have in this Monday? Be red beans and rice Yeah. What is rice on Monday?

Jason  22:08
Well I thought it was because he had the bone so usually the pork bones and everything so that you can you know use those up and you know just to continue to meal have it on Monday. That's what I thought but please educate me

Bianca  22:23
How about Shawna any any gift. 

Shawna  22:27
Well, I was thinking the same except that the other way so that whatever is leftover can get put into something else later. The beans and the rice like later in the week.

Bianca  22:37
No beans and rice is very simplistic meal is you know not not a lot to it is something you can throw on and forget about. Because that's your laundry day. 

Shawna  22:49
Oh, 

Jason  22:50
Oh

Bianca  22:51
My mother. Oh God, I remember she had a ringer washer. And if you never use one of those, you have to concentrate. Because I remember. I remember one time mama fingers went through the rollers. Yeah. And that freaks me out, you know? And he's just like, pulling sense. Ah, and I'm like, No, I'm dying, like, pulling them back out. But it didn't break anything.

Shawna  23:21
So you can't be a time or something on the stove. It's gotta be easy, because you got to pay attention because it's laundry day.

Bianca  23:29
Yeah. It's laundry day and get it done. But honey beans and rice taste white to lemon. Yo, 

Shawna  23:40
Listen you don’t have to tell me 

Bianca  23:50
to you eat a bowl of them. And you're walking around saying mm mm mh

Shawna  23:50
I'm certain I was I probably wouldn't say few times. You know, I always have a lot to say. But when I meet some good No, because I'm saying nothing. And I'm usually kind of dance a bit too.

Bianca  24:02
Yeah. And then my mom wasn't really big on making my Creole desert. Right versus when you say that? 

Daphne  24:19
Well, she she was, you know, you knew you were gonna get some banana pudding or some bread pudding or she's she made those things, you know, observed things, things like that. But you usually didn't have you usually didn't have desserts until like Sunday's. 

Bianca  24:39
And then but but it wasn't like anything traditional. It wasn't like a traditional Creole dessert like a bread pudding or, you know, Bananas Foster and that like that. Those are Restaurant Dishes. 

Shawna  24:48
Yeah. 

Daphne  24:49
Bananas Foster, for sure, you know, but in our home, it was we would have not read Caledon. The LC would do that. But another thing would be peach cobbler anybody you know, you live in in the south, you know, you're going to have some peach cobbler. Homemade.

Bianca  25:07
Thank you seriously good to have. 

Daphne  25:09
Y'all was about to kill market member market took the whole pan set down. Y'all

Shawna  25:18
I have I remember that? Because that was the biggest, even seen a pan that big before? Actually I was like, where did they even? Like how does that even fit into it? Oh my gosh.

Jason  25:28
I remember when I'm thinking that I'm just gonna throw a little something together and you apologize for the little amount, the tiny amount she made, which was a huge pot of gumbo was a breed a whole you know, macaroni cheese of a peach cobbler. I'm like, this is a this is nothing This is like

Bianca 26:01
I said when when people are coming together in creole I think the whole within the Creole culture, you know, we want to make to have it, you leave happy. Okay. So lanya is a real term lending as well. Okay. And that means, you know, you getting getting some next through, you know, it ain't just the norm, you know, you go you go Remember, you don't look back and say, Wow, what they just happen. You know, 

Shawna  26:34
Ma'am, I tell you mine, I've been experiencing lanya Yep, for a long time. Those are so my even memories. And on on my mom's side, you know, every Sunday, we had a big dinner at my grandmother's house. And holidays usually came with all the, you know, like the greens and the cornbread and all that stuff, too. But my kids, because we're a military family, they didn't grow up around family. So those little trips, you know, going back to Ohio and going to your house and oh, I think first of all, they weren't used to the general din of family coming together.

Bianca  27:16
Right? 

Shawna  27:18
There's just chat, oh, Holy Child, you know, just him and his parents. You know, I grew up with that, you know, so I, that actually energizes me. And it's, it's my favorite, you know, and I wouldn't tell them the stories, but when they got to experience that, and I was like, You guys didn't even everybody, you know, I'm like, like, this is just a fraction. This is not it. But I just I can see them right now kind of dumbfounded in the corner. Like, wow, what's happening? I think in your back room, there was music plan and people were looking at, I think TIFF was in the kitchen, making sure the cobbler was okay. And the kids were. And you know, we're in the living Oh, man, it was just amazing to them to meet you. But for me, I was like, checking it in. That's what I'm, that's just what I thrive on. I think they love to to date, why not? Talk about it. I just have this picture in my head of them standing there, like, Wow, what's not what they're used to with just I think it's the whole, I'll just go ahead and use upon it's the whole recipe, you know, it's the family. It's the sound, all of that.

Bianca  28:27
Yeah, it's all of it. Yeah, you know, growing up, you can help out on this. Growing up, there were certain times of the year, you know, around holiday time, where you would get all of that the smells, the sounds, just just the whole feeling. Christmas was just a one day event. It was a seasonal event. You know, like, we knew my mom was gonna go get some tanks from a paint store and, you know, try to make it look as pretty as he could, you know, you know, make some make some new curtains to hang up, you know, and all of that led to a feeling of excitement it started to build, right? It Yes, exactly. Maybe everything to build and build. And as he would decorate so I'm, I'm the one in the family who kind of, you know, accepted the mantle. I do love to decorate, you know, for holidays. And I know it gets on everybody's nerves. That's why I do it as much as I do now. 

Shawna  29:34
I was like, who said I don’t know

Bianca  29:38
But I like my like, my brand and love the light. You know, that's that's basically why I did it because that was something that we shared and he loved it, you know? And, you know, so but but all those things in in the listening to the old Christmas music. Now, traditionally, krill were killed Catholics. Okay, I think to this day, they're still mostly Catholic. Would you say since? Definitely, yes. Oh, so we were raised in the Catholic Church. And the music style was influenced by our religious practice. Because I remember the first time mama had a friend, a lady that lives close to us, and she would come by and during Christmas holiday, and we did not like, no music to be played, but Christmas music, but when Mama's friend lil will come by, she would play like RnB or whatever, we play this shit off, you know? We will get mad because, you know, like I said, the season it was a whole season. And, and then mama started shopping for different things. And she, I remember one time that we are trying to make some free cake. 

Jason  30:57
Oh, wow. 

Bianca  30:58
Yeah, it was a wild day.

Shawna  31:03
That was

Bianca  31:10
Yeah, well, it was. what it is. She didn't go by a recipe. She was just going by. I know what goes in it. You know, I'm just gonna use a little video a little bit there, you know, but it turned out the two but they everything, mainly sugar. And we know that sugar hardens everything. You know, if you're cooking with sugar, you know, it's going to change the it's just going to change the chemistry of everything. So fruitcake turned out. It looked like a brick. And it felt like a brick when she hit us with it. 

Jason  31:53
Oh, wow. 

Bianca  31:55
It did not turn out. Well. It's no good bacon, you know? 

Jason  31:59
It was smelling good. 

Bianca  32:01
Yeah, that's about it, though. It helps to, like create the atmosphere of Christmas baking. Like a lot of people say, oh, we're baking cookies. You know, my mother was out of the box. Okay, see the atmosphere of a cookie? Oh, no, no, see, you can go for the harder things. You know, if I want to take on a challenge, I'm gonna make a I don't know, whatever. And she usually she was good at it. But one thing I finally got her to admit, was that she was not a baker. Because at first, she would argue with you and say, Oh, no, no, no, no, Mama. We have to eat the things that you come up with. And the one thing that he could put a foot in, was she made a chocolate coffee cake. The frosting had coffee in it. 

Jason  32:53
Oh,

Shawna  32:54
I chocolate cakes. Actually. I put I put coffee in the cake itself with hot water because it keeps it moist. As you add a little bit of coffee to the chocolate like the icing as well as the cake. It's like it enhances the chocolatey flavor actually.

Jason  33:12
Yeah, there's one for my birthday.

Shawna  33:14
You want one for your birthday? 
Jason  33:17
Yeah.

Shawna  33:18
We can do that. That one now what I can do.

Bianca  33:23
Yeah. And you know, well, she finally admitted you know, she was she was more of a cook than a baker. She I think she enjoys cooking more than than than baking. She can bake an apple pie to make you want to slap somebody. You know, that's deep dish apple slices on Sunday. It was very good. 

Daphne  33:50
Mom was very good at a lot of things. She did kind of retire from a lot of it because mom and dad did a lot of fishing. You know, talk about culture. Now. There's a culture there in that culture. It's you've got the Gulf of Mexico. Right there. So you go fishing. You go shrimping. You go crabbing. And there's there's all of the the ingredients for your major creole Pat, if you will. So yes, her cooking was great. I loved the fish fries a church. I'm telling you guys it was good. Eating was good. And another thing that it didn't require a lot of cooking but some good cooking. Shrimp po boys, right the shrimp po boy. 

Jason  34:40
I'm not gonna you know I'm good. Good. 

Daphne  34:45
Your French bread you have that nice fried shrimp and you put that on there and seriously good eating. And you know, you're doing this on purpose. 

Jason  35:07
Got a good thing from them then I must admit, yeah, but if 

Daphne  35:09
Mom and dad used to go every single week with their fishing poles they had that was their date night. They go and shut the ends that appear. And they always brought something home. And so when Bianca and then came to visit to Bay St. Louis, we would have a crab boil out in the backyard. And we have one area with just a fried fish. Because you know, dock your Carl, he would just fry up the fish or mom would fry some fish. We'd have some boil crab, boiled shrimp, shrimp, oh, boys, some sausage on the grill, all kinds of things. So talk about land. Yep, you have your whole table out there. And this is this is the culture This is whether it's Cajun or Creole, you have a table with paper and open and in the crabs on the table, beer on the table and just sit down in the backyard eaten. So how about that Southwest meal, you just fix Jason right?

Jason  36:16
Grind the trash. Oh my 

Daphne  36:23
See, that's truly the culture that's for going all the way back when you think about Creoles. You, you think about that pot of gumbo that never stops. You think about the company that comes over and they're over late in the night. You think about that land? Yep, that little bit of something that Bianca was talking about, that you say that looks like a banquet? Well, that's a typical gathering. That's what you do. That's how folk gather. And you always have something for someone. And it's it's true hospitality. And it goes along with that side of cold music, right? Oh my god, 

Bianca  37:04
I was just thinking of that. Growing up, Mama didn't really introduce us to zydeco music. I didn't, I didn't really get a good introduction into zydeco music, until we first visited de St. Louis. I was over over your house. And I said, you know, what's that, but I mean, I liked it. It was different.

Shawna  37:23
It is different.

Bianca  37:25
It's actually the Creole folk music. It's called folk music, and just such a happy, happy music and it goes with the food. The, the just the whole culture, you know, the people are so laid back, they talk flow, they live flow is wonderful. So, but you know, you see,

Shawna  37:50
I agree with that.

Bianca  37:52
But yeah, we would be outside sitting around the table of, you know, the newspapers on the table with all the crab and potatoes and corn, everything from the boil. And, you know, they sit in on the deck beer. Remember the jacks, dear Jack's? 

Daphne  38:09
Yes, I do. Yeah, 

Bianca  38:11
There, there was a old Southern staple in my out of New Orleans.

Daphne  38:27
But there was something I wanted to bring up. And that was I was listening to the siblings, podcast, and I really enjoyed the three of you speaking and talking about your upbringing, and from a racial perspective, and how it was different here or here. And Bianca, I know, you can certainly speak on this as well as myself. The question always asked, and it's still asked, What are you and talk about ambiguity? You know, it's the elephant in the room. There's somebody sitting with us that doesn't look like us. And the thing of, you're too black to be white or to whites to be black. And, and speaking of it, and we're, we're mixed race, we have a multiracial component, a richness about us. There's a pride in the fact that you have to love yourself for who you are, and embrace your culture. And so I say this to both of you. Embrace your culture, because that's who you are. You You are a tapestry of a lot of different cultures in this world. If somebody asks you, what are you you say I'm Hi, I'm 57 I got a little bit of this a little bit of that. I'm gumbo and I'm proud 

Jason  39:58
Definitely gumbo

Daphne  40:02
If Yes, exactly. Say, today I feel like strip mall with crap. But it's Yeah, it's a good feeling. And it's something to be proud of. And it's a culture that you pass to your children. And you say not only do you have this art history, but you come from a culture that is known in this country, especially down in the along in the Gulf states in the Louisiana base, and right there, it's rich, and it comes even before the Louisiana Purchase. That culture has been around since then. And that's who we are. We're Creole. And when you say it, and you know, some people's most people will say, all I'm African American, because you know, people recognize that. And when they ask me, I say I'm Creole. What's that? If who I am? That's what it is.

Shawna  40:56
I like the answer you gave, if I'm asked that again. I'm like I'm Gumbo baby.

Daphne  41:00
Gumbo, yeah, it's a little bit of everything. You know, and you you love who you are. You say who you are, you live who you are. You don't have to be anything to anyone. You are who you are. You are Creole 

Bianca  41:21
Diversity is trending now, right? People are talking about, you know, either you're diverse enough or, or, you know, whatever. And, you know, it's sensitivity you're not, you're not sensitive enough or deep. What Why are you so angry, you know? So, now more than ever, people are starting to want to know who are they? Because I don't want to be what society has protected me. As always, okay. I'm not just one thing. You know, you want to put me in a box for your he could make it easy for you to relate to me, you know, right. I'm just one thing. You know, I'm gumbo. Okay, society will keep you in that box. If you allow them to put you in it. You all will not remain in the box. No Creole does know Creole does. I remember getting to an age where I resented just being called a negro. See, when I was a young young person, I was a negro. And it bothered me that that's all I was, when I knew that I was so much more. You know what I mean? So it became difficult for me to stay in my place. You know, where my father used to with great fear and trepidation. He would say they he got to learn how to stay in a place and keep your mouth closed. That's the i was i was the outspoken one. I was the one that would say, you know, how I felt? Or say how things work, you know? And if it wasn't right, guess who was gonna say it? Bianca? Hi, Bianca, glitter come out, you know. So, but the need arises in everybody's life. That's what I'm trying to say, Where? What didn't matter to you? One day, it starts to matter. 

Shawna  43:15
I have always wanted to know and understand because I've always looked different, even within my family. And I was always asked that question, what are you more? Or just Are you mixed? You know? And my answer forever was no, I'm not mixed. Or I'm black. But when I began to learn more, I mean, even Jason, I have had this conversation since the beginning of this season, even before the season started, because I think Jason Didn't I say, I asked you a question about identifying as a black male. And your response was, who said identify that way and I was like,

Jason  43:57
Right 

Shawna  43:58
Okay, I stand corrected, excuse me. Um, but that, that was my own assumption. And I had to let go of those assumptions. And not just think that just because I grew up feeling or identifying a certain way that he would as same as Tisha, we asked her the question to, you know, but one thing is, identity can change the way you identify, especially the more you learn, and even throughout the process of this podcast, and, you know, the more conversations I have, the more I have begun to identify as multiracial. And I started by saying, like, no, I identify moderately as a black woman, even though I know my, my ancestry, you know, has quite a bit of a mix in it. But then I can slowly begin to embrace the Creole culture. Not that I never wanted to embrace I just didn't know it.

Daphne  44:59
You know, It has, it has a name, it is something that most people by and large, unless you live in that part of the country, you don't hear that word spoken much. And for family that live, whether they're in California, whether they're in Ohio or Louisiana, things that you experienced as a child, and as you as you got older, as you explore the world, in different cultures, and different racial groups, you do ask a question. Who am I? What am I? Why do people ask me this? Why does my hair look like this? Why does my skin look like this? Does anybody identify with me? am I standing out there? Am I alone? Who do I identify with? Why am I not African Americans? Many people from Africa say, wait a minute, you're not African American? I am. I live here in America. And I'm from Africa. So what are you? I say, I am Creel. Because I understand having lived in that part of the country, I understand who we are now. I embrace it. But when I was a small child, like you, I experienced those things, difficulties. People ask me the questions over and over again. Why does your mom look like that? Why does your brother Why do your brothers and sisters look that way? Why, why is this? Why is that and I will confess to this to you. When I was in high school, I can remember feeling left out because I was that shy one that just kind of hung on the outside. And I wanted to identify with that black side of my family and I wanted to wear an afro. So I had to really mess my hair up good to get it to where I needed, and spray it a lot. So I can embrace that part of me. But to go through all that in order to get that Afro. It took a lot of work. But a lot of people like me understand what that feels like and what that felt like then. But now you learn to love who you are, embrace who you are not being embarrassed about it. And proudly say, this is who my family is. And yes, we are probably the most diverse group of people, because we come from all over the place. Food, artistry, racial groups, ethnic cultures, all mixed into one. That's true diversity, 

Bianca  47:29
what you have to do is understand, there's not going to be one of those that you're going to be able to lean more towards and say, and mostly this. 

Daphne  47:39
Exactly. Yeah. 

Bianca  47:41
As I got older, I stopped trying to be how I want people to treat me. Right, right. So I'm gonna wear an afro, that means, you know, they're going to salute me, right on my sister, you know, you know, we fill up the fist, it took me a while to get to that place where I didn't have to identify with anything that I went through the will I know that a part of me is European also. So you know, I hang with some of my European citizens and see what they're about. And, you know, Bill only, but she sits so far, but there's been a group, they'll only let you come in so far. Because they know you don't fit perfectly. So we'll just kind of let you stay on the outside and observe how we do what we do. But we don't want you to feel like you fit because you don't fit and black sisters will let me know. You don't fit saying waiting. Let me know. You don't fit. Hispanics. You don't fit. So I stopped trying yet. Yeah, I just said to get it to get it. And somebody asked me what I what I am. I'm just gonna say Creole, if you want to know what that means. I'll continue to educate you. But if you're satisfied and walk away, then fine, I'm satisfied. That way you're not you're not gonna put any any kind of limitation or expectation on. 

Shawna  49:05
Right. So Jason and I did have lots of discussions even with other guests throughout the season, about this concept of enough like not being enough of this or enough of that. And it does it kind of messes with you as you're trying to work out your identity. So, in one sentence, what is Creole mean? To be Creole means what?

Bianca  49:29
Enigma I consider myself my brain

Shawna  49:36
Right you know, I am grinning right now, but you know why?

Bianca  49:41
Why?
 
Shawna  49:42
That's one of my lines I call it I say it's about being an ethnic enigma.

Bianca  49:46
Yeah, that's it ma'am. That's that's how I feel.

Shawna  49:52
What about you and Daph to be Creole means?

Daphne  49:55
To be what for me to be Creole is to me embrace all cultures. I am every Yeah. 

Jason  50:11
Yes. I got it. 

Daphne  50:13
Yeah, you could just say, Who are you? What are you? You say? Yes.

Jason  50:18
Yes. 

Shawna  50:21
Jay, what are you saying?

Jason  50:22
I was gonna say, out of all of the episodes, I gotta say, I think this is probably my favorite.

Daphne  50:29
Because it's about family. It's about where you come from. But embrace yourself for who you are. And when others ask you. You say Hello, my name is Daphne. I love who I am. This is who I am. Of course, you're not going to say your name is Daphne. 

Jason  50:50
Oh my, oh my

Daphne  50:52

But well, Shawna has already had that suggestion on Facebook, so 

Shawna  50:54
I couldn't say that face. 

Daphne  50:56
But it's about being family.

Jason  51:04
Oh, my 

Shawna  51:05
I love you too. so much. Thank you so much for sharing this with Jason, do you have any closing thoughts?

Shawna  51:14
My name is Daphne .

Shawna  51:19
You forgot to say I love myself.

Jason  51:24
And I am gumbo

Shawna  51:26
I am. 

Daphne  51:28
Yes. In the I am gumbo.

Jason  51:31
Love it. Love it.

Shawna  51:33
Thank you both so much. This has been really an absolute treasure. I am so happy to have had this conversation with you and have Jason with me. So that the two of us can learn from you together.
Love you both.

Shawna  51:47
Thank you so much.

Daphne  51:50
I love you too. This has been a pleasure. 

Jason  51:53
Love you aunties.

Daphne  51:53
Thank you. I have one more thing to say. Less than a Baltimore relay. Yes. Yeah. Let the good times roll.

Shawna  52:05
Alright. Love 

Jason  52:18
Alright Shawna It was pretty interesting.

Shawna  52:20
Yes. I learned what's

Jason  52:23
Good. You feel a little bit more familiar with Creole culture and support? 

Shawna  52:30
Well, there certainly was lots to take in I think when we finally take that trip we're planning that'll be kind of fun.

Jason 52:37
Oh yes absolutely. That'll be amazing. 

Shawna  52:42
It really well. No, it's really great. I mean, it is fun to to just listen to them tell their stories and kind of know it put you know put a little bit of a setting there to it too. So yeah, that was cool. What about you  you?. Do you feel more Creole?

Jason  53:00
I feel more Creole. I definitely learned more than I thought I knew. And that's always a good thing. Don't just eat.

Shawna  53:13
Yeah, that was a parent. You're like, this is this is really killing you.

Jason  53:19
I knew I knew this was dangerous when I was doing it. So it so it was kind of expected but Oh, geez.

Shawna  53:26
I know. I know. But also not just the food. Like that whole atmosphere. I just love that feeling. It's just so warm and cozy anyway, just it's like the epitome of what it means to go home or have that feeling of family. Yeah,

Jason  53:43
Yes. Tom zydeco

Shawna  53:46
That's right. And and make sure that you fully embrace Lania. Yep. Right. Oh, yes. That little sprinkle of extra I love that concept actually. Extra cool.

Jason  54:01
That's gonna be part of your regular book as well. Yeah.

Shawna  54:04
I have to I have to go get the accent though. To say

Jason  54:09
We got it. We'll get down there a little bit more spirits with it. You know when you can really bring it back? I did.

Shawna  54:17
Oh, thanks for hanging with me. I'm so glad that we got to do this. I think they had fun.

Jason  54:23
Oh, laughs Absolutely. This This was like, my favorite episode.

Shawna  54:28
It really was. Oh. All right. Well till next time. You take care yourself way over there.

Jason  54:36
I'm trying you to stay safe.

Shawna  54:38
Try to alright Big Brother. 

Jason  54:42
Love you.

Shawna   54:42
Love you to talk to you soon. Okay, everyone, that's it for this episode. I hope that you enjoyed that and that you didn't get too hungry listening. If you did. Go out and get yourself a field club because there's some good stuff to find inside. Well take care of yourself. It is a crazy, crazy world. So make sure that you are safe wearing your mask social distancing. I know we're kind of this weird mix of like, things open but not open. Just Just be safe, be smart. In the meantime, please share a smile with someone and finding opportunity to make someone love y'all Talk to you soon.