Wanda Booth: A Mother's Love

Wanda Booth is a business strategist helping the Million Dollar Business Divas achieve financial freedom and purpose in their online business. She also served 25 years in the US Army where conversations of race, diversity, and equal opportunity are often discussed. Wanda currently lives in Kansas raising her three children to understand their true selves.

In this episode, she talks with me about her experiences as a black woman raising her multiracial children and her efforts to shield them from the racist hurt that she experienced in her younger years.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Shawna, Wanda, Carmen

Intro  00:06

Welcome to our True Colors hosted by Shawna Gann joined her as she explores the challenges of being a racial, racial, and ethnic, and cultural conundrum. Let's dive in.

Shawna  00:23

Hey, yo, Carmen, what's new?

Carmen  00:25

Not much. I'm, I'm honestly I would say live in my good fall life. Lots of soups, lots of like, squash and carrots. which is exciting to me. Probably very boring to a lot of other people. But it's that time of year and I'm ready

 Shawna  00:42

for that Canadian time a year down here in Virginia. I'm not trying to eat soup yet. Although, like, I need something cold. Like, like a week when a cold for like a funky cold front came in. It was like 40 degrees Fahrenheit. It was like, Whoa, my husband brought the plants and I'm like, Are you afraid of a freeze already? But then now it's warmed up again. No soups for me.

 01:06

No soups yet. I'm like, please, the excitement will come. I promise.

01:11

I love soup.

Shawna  01:12

I love fall. Fall is my favorite season. Yeah, it absolutely is. Its boot season. Yeah. Although it's not like I'm gonna be out buying a lot of boots this year. Number one, I'm not trying to be in malls. And number two.

01:23

I'm not gonna wear

01:25

just the living room. You're

Shawna  01:27

like, What? I'm wearing my boots. I got some cute boots. slippers. My little booties. So I got start. Yeah, there you go.

01:37

That's good. I'm glad it's uh, I'm pretty lucky. So I live. You know, we called the Pacific Northwest, I think probably people knew is called the

Shawna  01:48

I say after the PNW (Pacific Northwest).

01:50

There you go. But yeah, the weather here at least is it's a lot cooler. But like out near the Great Lakes like in Ontario, you know, just above Michigan and stuff like that. It's actually quite hot right now. Apparently, like 25 degrees or so. Well, 25 Celsius for us, which is? I don't know, probably in the 80s or 90s 80s.

02:07

Maybe 80s. Yeah,

Shawna  02:11

I'll do a little conversion.

02:13

It says 77 so I lie. My American.

02:17

My American

Shawna  02:21

70 sevens not too bad. That's Yeah, comfortable attempt, I think.

02:24

Yeah. It's funny for us for September though. Yeah. We don't even know what's happening. Climate wise. We're like, Is it gonna be cold do we bring on the prairies, you'll hear the word funny hug, which it's a hoodie. So in Saskatchewan, it means a hoodie. So if you hear someone say, oh, gotta grab a bunny hug. It means a hoodie, because you don't know how cold it's gonna bring? What a lot of how your

Shawna  02:45

layers?

02:47

Yeah, exactly.

Shawna  02:48

Yesterday, I took part one of my three part exam for my competencies. How

02:55

was it?

Shawna  02:55

I think it was okay. I have to wait. I still have a few weeks before I'll know the result. But so yesterday, I took the first part, I went into my office and I had my bunny hug because it was older than hot and cold and hot. And I had to sit there for like five hours.

03:11

Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

03:12

But now you can incorporate bunny hug into your next exam. If I understand. I

Shawna  03:18

don't know if I'll put it in the exam. But I will definitely incorporate into my vocab.

03:24

That's all we want to hear in Canada.

Shawna  03:28

Where's your bunny hug? Yeah, exactly. We'll be looking at me like what they're like, Are you okay, Toronto? I think the only hours that I'm not in front of a screen or my sleeping once.

03:39

Wow.

Shawna  03:43

I have a question for you actually. Yeah. So you know, we just lost RBG, which is, yeah, horrible. And somebody on LinkedIn, had a picture of her. And it was some kind of tribute. And I commented on it. I wrote something like, she left the tour trust to pick up if we're ready to take on the challenge, something like that, you know, because, like, she did so many things for everybody. And someone responded to my comment on that post about abortion. It was pretty graphic. Oh, no. And it really jarred me. And so I was like, you know, I don't want to get into a political commentary, which I know is not going to go anywhere. Because if we have differences of opinion, we're just going to continue to have differences of opinion. And I struggled because I wanted to respond. But I didn't want to get into this huge political debate on LinkedIn. Yeah. And it wasn't till later that I thought I should have just said, you know, hey, I'm happy to talk to you about this offline. But my LinkedIn account is not where I want to have this discussion. Definitely. But at the same time, I didn't want to silence her because I think everybody needs to be and should be heard, but it's just kind of about the appropriateness of the venue, I

05:02

don't definitely I think I totally agree, I think the platform that is being used isn't necessarily the place to engage like that. But I do hear where you're coming from in terms of the empathy. And even if you're having a sounds like a pretty massive disagreement in terms of values here, not linked to science, this person's voice. But I do think it's totally fine to say, you know, I don't know that LinkedIn is the best place to have this conversation. If you do want to just talk about our views, I'd be happy to do that offline. I mean, personally, I might have deleted the comment, because I think LinkedIn is more of a professional setting. But then again, I think sometimes there can be some kinds of I don't know if whitewashing is the right term, but when we say like, professional, you know, that, that, let's be careful not to exclude some ways of expression that don't necessarily match what we think should be on LinkedIn. But I don't know, to be honest, I would have deleted it. But

Shawna  05:55

I ended up deleting it, because I felt like the risk, I did respond at first. And then like, I deleted it just a few minutes later, because I was like, that just opens the door, actually, for further discussion in this area that I don't want to have on this platform. And if I'm honest, I almost did like a video message. on LinkedIn. You know, sometimes I do. It's rare that I do every, you know, I will post things sometimes, but I saved most of that for Instagram. Right? And, but I feel like we are entering a time in the US and and possibly you see it there too, or in other places around the world where that line between what is appropriate for work conversation, and what is around a kitchen table kind of conversation is really getting blurred. Yeah, just because you're in a work setting, doesn't take away the social issues that we're facing. And I'm finding to like with the whole training thing. How on one hand, can Trump say that having conversations about the 1619 project in school or diversity trainings, you know, being divisive and anti American. He says that, which then totally goes against what we're trying to do. So the conversations are not meant to be dismissive. They're meant to be unifying, because then it gives a better perspective. But then on the other hand, at a, at one of his rallies, he starts touting racehorse theory, and talking about good genes. In fact, he just nominated Amy Cohen Barrett for rbg. Mm hmm. And in his speech, again, he said something about good genes. And it's like this man who has said, I have done the most for black Americans ever African American a lie. That's a lie. And then finally, he was like, Well, I guess we can give, you know, Abraham Lincoln some credit. Okay, thanks. 

Carmen  08:02

Thanks for your historical analysis,

Shawna  08:04

I mean, but then at the same time, preaching white supremacy. Exactly,

Carmen  08:09

exactly.

Shawna  08:10

We're also getting into a time where we're talking about what's authentic, what is authenticity? What does that look like? And bringing your whole self to work? Well, guess what? These issues come with me? It's not like really? Yeah, I leave those at the door. I shouldn't have to. Yeah, I'm at the door.

08:26

I think that's another thing too, is it's like, for me, it's like I don't leave my next heritage out the door. When I walk into work, you know, and I think it's interesting. I work in a field where it's, it's very diverse. And there's a lot of like, it's it's gender diverse, it's sexual orientation diverse, it's ethnically diverse. And I've been starting to have these conversations with my co workers where I don't think we would have had them before because I think I would have done that exact thing. We're being like work is not the place to have these conversations. But I think there's a way to kind of like spoonful by spoonful, put in snippets of these conversations and to normalize it, you know, and there's all this rhetorical analysis of using moment movement, all these things. We're in a period now where we're recognizing that there has been, I don't even like to use the word foundation. But since like America was shaped as America is now since Canada was shaped as Canada is now like, there has been inequity in race relations, there is no doubt about it. And like, I just think it's, it's such a bizarre thing to me that we're supposed to go about our day to day lives, and not have that pop into our professional spheres, if we want to call it not have that pop into like our, you know, private spheres with our friends and family, whatever. I think it's very natural. And I think the point of what we're pushing for right now, I say we being like bipoc people, which maybe I shouldn't involve everyone in my beads right now. But I think the point is that like we want to normalize having these conversations, like we want to normalize having these things pop up. And I think sometimes there's where we internalize this messaging that like, is It's inappropriate, or it's it's uncomfortable to talk about these things in quote, professional settings, right? But it's like, but that's, that's not true. Like, we're taught to believe that. But it's not true because we don't leave our history. We don't leave our personalities at the door, we don't leave our families histories at the door, we don't leave our trauma at the door, like it shapes who we are. So why shouldn't we be able to have that be present in the conversations we have with the people we interact with most with just like often co workers? Right? Yeah, we spend so much time with our co workers even virtually now. Yeah, like that we have so much interaction with them. So I think it's very normal. And I think there's ways to do it. And I think it may be part of reasserting a healthy power balance is figuring out how we involve that in the conversations we have. And we can create a level of receptivity on the other side, but like, we can build relationships and be vulnerable and have trust. And so we can have these little spoonfuls of starting to talk about that with our co workers who maybe don't look like us, you know, who don't have the same family history as us. But I think there's a way, you know, I think anecdotally, like I've been able to do it with one of my co workers and I, I sent her a text after a really long conversation. And I said, you know, thanks for listening, and she said, Well, thanks for your candor. Like I don't hear this other other places, you know, and I think sometimes it's, that's part of like pushing the needle pushing the dial right is like I've been vulnerable, and I trust you enough to be vulnerable with you. In settings where it maybe doesn't seem like it's it's always been the right place to do it.

Shawna  11:31

Right. I think trust man, that's such a key word there too, because it is definitely not easy. So our guest today, her name is Wanda booth, she actually touches on some uncomfortable conversations that she's had with a co worker from her previous work experience. And how odd that was, but also satisfying for her to have that conversation. It was surprising to her the way that turned out. So Wanda booth is her name. She's a business strategist. And her whole gig is helping the million dollar business divas achieve financial freedom and purpose in their online businesses. So before this, though, she served for 25 years in the US Army, where conversations like this, like with race, diversity, equal opportunity, all of that stuff were often discussed, but then moved into another field where like I said, it was kind of an odd thing to have those discussions. 

Carmen  12:25

Mm hmm.

Shawna  12:26

Right now she's living in Kansas, and she's raising her three children to understand their true selves and to really embrace that authenticity that we talked about. Uh, huh. You're ready to take a listen. 

Carmen  12:37

Let's dive in. I'm really excited to hear what she has to say.

Shawna  12:40

Absolutely. All right, here we go. Hi, Wanda. How are you?

Wanda  12:47

Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

Shawna  12:50

I am doing pretty okay. Things are busy, but they're always busy. But that's kind of a good thing for me. If I stay still too long, then I get. I don't like that. So it's like, yeah, trying to have that balance. You know,

Wanda  13:03

that's why I tell myself is he actually I try to use the word like unproductive. Because I tell people it's like the idol of mine and the idle hands cuz I truly believe that China, like, if you sit still too long, you start thinking crazy stuff and you start doing crazy stuff. So you keep yourself busy. Like kids remember how like how we keep our kids busy? Like no, you'd even do something in sports. Same thing with adults. I think adults that don't do anything, tend to start doing things they end up doing.

Shawna  13:29

But here's the question, what happens if you're busy, but you're not necessarily productive?

13:35

That is such a?

Shawna  13:36

Well, because there are days where I feel like oh my god, I'm so busy. But what did I do? And then there are other days that I'm so proud because of all the checkmarks on my little to do list that I consider actually productive? Hmm.

Wanda 13:47

I think we do have Well, yeah, I think we have both days. Because there are days I'm busy. And I can tell you, I feel so tired. But like what do you do? I have no idea. I don't see any progress. But then there's days like I have my little check sheet like like my little a student checks Chico I they call it like, Look, I did all three things I said I was gonna do. So.

Shawna  14:08

I'm so that way. Right?

Wanda  14:11

I need a checklist.

Shawna  14:12

Yeah, and I'm old school too. I keep like an actual journal. And my friends and family tease me because I love markers and pens, and I have all the colors and I do that's probably most like too much of my day is predefined my to do list rather than just doing it. But in defense. While I'm doing that, it helps me kind of process and think through what I'm doing. So I have you know, there's a method to my man my madness.

Wanda  14:37

I love it.

Shawna  14:38

I am. Yeah, but I'm so glad to include you in my day today. So thank you for joining me on the show. 

Wanda 14:45

Well, thank you for having me. I'm blessed. I'm honored. I love what you're doing. I'm just glad to be able to contribute to the conversations.

Shawna  14:52

I really thank you for for sharing because one thing that I've learned over the process of this journey with people podcasts and hearing from folks is that it has been meaningful to them. And it's, I'm so glad because I set out the goal, you know, to do two things really to build the bridge between academia and what we live every day. And then also to provide a platform for people to share stories and hear each other's stories, especially with the context of belonging and fitting in. And it's hard because we live in a world where society likes to categorize us, and put us in all the boxes. And definitely, I'm a person that doesn't do well with boxes at all, maybe like semi circles or open sided ovals, perhaps, but I just can't do like boxes. So I am so glad when I hear from folks that these kinds of conversations make a difference, especially because sometimes you think you're alone in your situation. And when you hear somebody else, then you're like, Okay, all right, I'm not alone. And also to know that there's a sense of community. So you're definitely valued. Thank you so much. Oh,

Wanda 15:59

thank you. I'm excited. I'm like, I love what you're doing. And I love the about the whole color and the true color. So I'm ready to jump in. Because this is really healing, especially at this time right now.

Your work is needed. And it's appreciate it. So Oh,

Shawna  16:14

thank you. Well, let's dive in. Why don't we start with? Can you tell me a little bit about yourself and your family?

Wanda 16:20

Yeah, so um, so my claim to fame always kind of started out with me being an army veteran, because that means a lot to me. 25 years I served in the army. And that wasn't a very easy feat. And anybody can say they ever serve in the military. It's hard military life is very difficult, not just for the military service person, but for the family to spouses and children. Amen. I did 25 years as a diverse female in interracial relationships. And that takes a toll of all the stuff you have to do in life. And then I did that for 25. And then I became a financial advisor. And that was another challenge being a corporate world in the financial arena. And then I decided to just live on purpose and start my own business and follow my passion. Because I really want to be more of my kids and choose who I want to be around. I don't know I'm in this season of my life right now. One is decide who I want to be with and what I want to do with my time, so I started my own business. And that's what I'm doing now. divorce. I'm in a relationship now. three beautiful children. That's the biggest thing. So I have grown children, not to grown a 23 year old. I know I keep saying they're grown. But they're in that those of you that have teenagers understand that famous I'm in. So the 23 year olds, cool, like he's doing it, he's driving, he got a car, he's graduated from college, he's okay, he's good. He stays near. So I get to see him every week. So that's a blessing. But my 16 and 15 year old, those are my back to back children are like twins, and I'm telling you, they're a doozy. And they get along, but they don't get along. But they get along, as I call it. They're the partnership. Like they're a little booth, powerhouse. So they get together. And when they come to like ask me something or do something, they come in twos and like, so to know, they're like, Oh, my God greater in numbers. So that's what's keeping me up and busy right now is just raising these teenagers in the house and in trying to go with the world and having these great conversations, and just really keeping them busy during this time. Yeah, well, you

Shawna  18:29

certainly have a lot going on. And I'm so excited to kind of dive into this. I think it would be great to hear your story from these different perspectives. First of all, I just want to say I appreciate what you said also about the spouse and children. My husband recently came back from overseas for his military retirement after 25 years. So that's exciting for us. We definitely went on that journey with him and a journey we did. We've been around the world. So it feels very nice to be appreciated. And thank you also for your time and service. Awesome. I just have to like fast forward a little bit for a second because I want to know what it was like for you going into financial advising. This is like an industry that tends to be dominated by white males. Oh, what? What was that like for you?

Wanda 19:21

Okay, so I guess everyone wants to know the true for here, honestly, yeah, I'm gonna be very, I'm just gonna let you guys know, it's hard. And for anyone that wants to say, Okay, let me kind of my emotions, because we're just having this conversation. I had a great conversation yesterday from another financial advisor, older guy, and he's white male, and we talked about the world and why I left the financial world. And he even said and taught to me, like, while you're, you know, you're so smart. You understand so much about stocks, and I, that I loved it, but then I'm like, What do you mean, you know, but I try not to take it out of context. So I'm just like, just giving you a call. supplement, take it in there. But that was the whole thing. It was kind of like, it's not a lot of diversity in there, they do have females in there. But even the diversity of even Hispanics or Asians or even other races is just not there. And you always feel like you have to prove yourself or I'm just a smart Now granted, it takes years to understand everything. But you feel like you're always competing. And then the the name of the game is bringing in money. I don't care what anyone tells you. Yes, they want to help you. Yes, I want to help you. But the name of the game is to bring in assets and to bring in money. And to bring in clients, when you ask me about being in financial advising as a diverse person is really the industry is white males. It was hard, it was the always seem like you have to prove yourself or have the knowledge or try to bring in assets. And what we mean by that is bringing money bring in people who had the money, right? It was hard for me, I think, to bring in people that had those million dollar accounts, half million dollars account, because the people who were attracted to me and wanted to work with me and wanted me to manage their money didn't have those super large accounts, which that's what you need.

Shawna  21:17

And the competition, all of that.

Wanda 21:19

Yeah. Oh, very competitive. And that's the one thing I miss from military to financial visor in the military. It was competitive. But Congress promoted us, right. So it was really as officers, you guys, so as an officer, you get promoted, but you still have to do your work, do your thing. You still equal pay equal work, you know, it's a game. But it wasn't as much backstabbing as it is, to me, in the financial industry. But that's my view of it. That's the way I left the world. So everyone experience is different, but I didn't leave all it. Yay. So yeah, that was me.

Shawna  21:55

I am a person that changed my career I was in teaching before now I do management consulting, and it's a different kind of industry to teaching, especially elementary schools, predominantly women. Right. So when men were in elementary school, that was pretty diverse for us. But then you go to the management consulting field, where similarly, in the industry, it is dominated by men, I think it's probably not as much so as finance, you know, finance. But yeah, so I was just curious what that was like. And then I love that you took charge of your time, and you wanted to make those decisions for yourself. So you've opened your own business. And I think that's a very brave thing to do. I think a lot of people have an entrepreneurship spirit, but it's scary.

Wanda  22:43

It's very scary.

Shawna  22:46

But it's just so empowering, though. Like, I was like cheering for you, as you're said, Yep. And I wanted to see who I wanted to see and do what I wanted to do it to do. And I just think that's amazing. What's your business?

Wanda 23:00

Okay, so I love what I do. So you guys gonna hear a lot about the military a lot, a lot, a lot about military, but the military is my life and butter. But in the military, we have these teams and you had units and you have these collaborations, and you have camaraderie, and I love it, and I missed it. I miss being around like minded people who are all for a mission. And we all work together with our different talents, our experiences, your rank, your everything, expertise, everything, you work all together, and you bring to the table what you have to sell. So I took that same concept, and I was doing business coaching, and I was in business coaching, being coached for financial advice, and also for my business. And then I just had a my own aha moment. I was like, You know what, I really like business consulting, business teaching, but I think it could be cheaper. And it also it could be a little bit more collaboration, because it was just me and one other person. And he was talking to me and I had another one. And she was talking to me, but it was all the information I received was just from one person. And I'm like, Well, I need more ideas I needed. I need to talk this out more. For me. I was like, Well, why can't we have like a mastermind, so I started looking into masterminds, they are so expensive. And then a lot of them, they get into a mastermind, they want you to go through their original course work and all this stuff. And I kind of like that's not really what I want if I can have the best of both worlds. 

So that's what I created the best of both worlds. So now, I do business consulting, business coaching, but we do it all in a mastermind format. So there is no one on one. Even if I coach somebody is going to be at least three or four of us in the room because I'm not a counselor, and I don't want to be one and I'm not doing anything personal nothing. So why can't we talk business because what you need, I don't have obviously, but some of your other partners may have it as well. But they need to be in the room to hear all the needs and all the resources at one time. If that makes Son. So that's what I've done is our company's called insight masterminds we focus on making in masterminds, the flagship mastermind is called million dollar business divas. And those are my ladies, I love them. And their goal is to make a million dollars a year in your business. Now, you may not do it the first year, I mean, I do the second year, but by the third year, we should be pretty close if we're following the plan and doing the strategy, right. But I want to have more women millionaires, because I feel financial freedom is important. And I want more women to live the life and make a choice like I did. Live your life on purpose, do what you want to do be with who you want to be with. Take time with your family. But the only way you can do that is finances. Economics. This is a capital world, you have to have money to stay in a hotel money to get on an airplane money to eat. So why not? You have money, but do it with purpose?

Shawna  25:53

I mean, I dig I'm all about the intentionality. I think that's so fantastic. Wow. Wow. Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit more about you. What I know about you is that your children are interracial. And that you're in an interracial relationship and have experienced that before. There are some great things about having a fantastic partner, obviously. But there can be some challenges to whenever, especially if you come from different cultural backgrounds, and then you're facing some of the societal issues. Would you talk a little bit about maybe some of your experiences?

Wanda 26:36

Oh, yes, yes. So let's see here. I'm trying to there was so much. So I guess I go with a relationship. So working relationship, I kind of put one on one because when I started dating in the military, military, we tend to date each other, usually from a female point of view, as military guys, find wise, maybe civilians is what we call a or non military women. But women in the military, we tend to date our own because I'm there all the time. And that's who you end up being around. And in the military, you have color, but you really don't see color. And for me, I was kind of sheltered because I was an officer. I was treated very well. I mean, there's I mean by the color of my skin, you know it but I was treated very good. So it was okay for me to date outside my race. And it was also in our circle. Now I'm from the hood, like where I'm originally from. That's not cool. Like I will parpi call names or made fun of for being an interracial relationship or thinking I'm like, what's the best? We're like boogy or think I'm all about myself, you know, those kind of stereotypes. And it's the military. I don't get that. I didn't I didn't get that. It was just like, Hey, you wanna go to movies? Yeah, sure. And it was just nice. So it was like a bubble even reason my children, the military, because they had interracial friends. They had kids that were Hispanic, Korean, Hawaiian, all different nationalities. And we had interracial marriages, interracial relationships. So even like daycares, you know, there were white and black daycare workers, there were Hispanic daycare workers. And the duty stations I had, it was okay. So my kids didn't grow up, even the way I grew up where it was all black. And then if you saw white person, or you saw cop, you're scared. My kids didn't have that fear. They didn't grow up that way. And they didn't openly have like racism or colorism until they got older. And then as they got older, and we started kind of getting out of the military bubble, I like to call it, then that's when they saw the real world. And that's when we have more issues. So that's that piece of it.

Shawna  28:42

Mm hmm. Your kids I think is so important, particularly for other military families to hear each other's stories, because there's always the questions about how the kids handle it when you move from place to place, or are they experiencing these different things? Questions like, Don't you feel bad moving them around, I know that there's value in the stability of growing up in the same house, same neighborhood, same everything. But I also found so much value, and then being able to experience different people and cultures in different settings. I listened to your story, you talk about kind of what it was like when you grow up and where you grew up. And I wonder from your perspective, or from maybe what your kids have told you what it was like for them growing up in the military bubble, as you call it, and then transitioning to the real world as you came to the end of your military career. Okay,

 Wanda 29:35

um, if they first say that I think I was more shocked. And more. Were talking about how the kids dealt with it. I think I dealt with it worse. And I say that because kids are more resilient. And so let me go back. Let me go back and I have to go back and tell story because I want you guys to understand my mindset. So I grew up in the south I grew up in is you know, low income. I call it the hood, wherever Low Income violence drugs, you name it to shenanigans, and to get out of my neighborhood or to get out where I was from is truly either learn to play basketball, do some rap music, or join the army or the military. And I chose the latter. I chose the military. But I stayed in unlike a lot of people do three or four years, and they go back to their same hometown. Whereas I did 25 years and got away further away, like my first duty station or like Germany that I went to Alaska, like, I was like, get me as far as way as you can from my hometown. Because to me, I thought where I was growing up wasn't good for me. And nor did I want to raise a family in that. 

So as I grew up, as I said, I ran away from my home, and then made my own new family, like I have brothers and military sisters who have all different races and colors and everything. And we love each other. And my kids are raised in this bubble. But then as we start transition our military now you become stable, like so we don't move as much anymore when they get in that middle school, high school age, because you want them to be settled. Because I think it's important during that time. And Elementary, I was one of those they went to like three different schools, they're fine. But they're fine. Who asked me to say a difference? I have? People ask me the same thing. Like how can you move on like thoroughly fine, don't worry. But middle school, high school, that's when I like, okay, because that's when you start, you know, developing and that's when you start to figure out who you are, who your friends are developing social. So I believe in that. I wanted them to say sable, so we chose Kansas, it's just how we ended up so we're in Kansas. So it was way different from the self. And that's a whole nother we talked about that book circle back to that. Yeah, that's a whole nother thing in the Kansas. 

So now we're stable, right? So I want them to see this. Now, mind you, I want you to come from my point of view, I am a black woman who raised pretty much, you know, low income, whatever, but I'm a very educated woman, my grandmother was a teacher. So I was able to read, I was able to go to college, I have my Masters I went became an officer, I did all these great things to become opposite, or to get away from my environment, if that makes sense. So I had the desire to raise my kids missing way to get them away from that environment. So they will be looked at as an equal, they be looked at as notable or they'd be looked at as fair. It's weird that we're having this conversation. Not weird, but because of the conversation we're talking about now about privilege and non privilege. I, honestly, and I'm not going to attach no color to it. I know a lot of people are offended by, you know, W privilege. And I'm trying not to say it because I'm going through these conversations now here on panels. But I wanted my kids to have privilege. I'm not saying I wanted them to have a color privilege or anything. I truly wanted my kids to have an advantage and a privilege. So I moved to the best neighborhoods, I moved to the best schools, I move to best of everything. Not thinking as a black woman. I'm going to make it I'm from the south, it don't matter. You can call me as you want on my hustle. However, when you have little kids who are Miss who are finding they're they're not white, they're not black, what are they? They look this way, they don't look either, or, oh, that's your mom, I didn't know these conversations are going on. And then I'm thinking that dirt in this, oh, everything is gonna be good. Because we're on this side of town, not realizing on this side of town. I was the only black live like cool, I'm good with that I can handle it. Not understanding my kids would also the only blacks. You know what I'm saying they can handle as much as I could. Because I thought it's kind of hard because I help people understand like you try to move your kids to is separate them. But then you realize you really didn't separate them because they didn't grow up with that. I don't know, like you're about, as you know, in our age group we saw and went through a lot, but yet we can deal with it. 

Our kids now aren't built the way we are. They're not used to being spit on and call names and all this. I thought that they were protected. I thought they were good. I thought you know, we're over here. But then after all this stuff happened with the officer and then George Floyd. That's when the conversation started coming out with my family. And my kids are like, Oh no, there's racism at school. I'm like, What! What are you talking about? You know, I'm so sheltered. I was like, No, we live over here. No, you're smart. No, you look at you. You have a in my case like mom calm down like even though we have this and this and my son like yeah, I went to you know, k u i went to school. Yes, I have a four year degree. But I still black mom. I'm like, No, no, you have a degree. You know, no, you you're you did this and I tried so much to make them equal, make them accept it, make them have advantages, not really realizing all that I did. And my kids even told me like, Mom, we love you. You did a great job. We're still black girls. I broke down. That broke me down. Because I was like, no. And I'm not trying to say, No, you're not black, because I'm black. And it's obviously they're black children, even though they're interracial. But the point was, I did so much for you not to be judged by color, I move you to the best. I gave you education, I did everything. So you can be considered equal, or you have a right to be here, you are valuable. And they are telling me No, but at school, this is what's being said, at school. This is what song so did I'm like, what, I was very naive to think that I can just blindly shade their color of their skin.

Shawna  35:39

You know, part of this conversation that goes hand in hand with privilege is the discussion around systemic racism. And it sounds like you were trying to game the system.

Wanda 35:49

I was trying to game the system, but it didn't work. Like I thought, you know. But here's the problem. Let's talk honest. Why would I gaming the system? That's the problem. And that's the conversation. And we were having that today we're talking about privilege in America. And then I love the whole world. But then I was like, why am I gaming the system? There's have to be something there if psychologically, I was like, No, I moved here for this. I put you in this school for this reason. Why did I do all that if if there truly were equal and truly judged by their character and their skills and their mind, then it wouldn't have matter? all the extra stuff I was doing.

Shawna  36:33

No, I got it. So I grew up all over the place. Actually, I love that you said you spent time in Alaska cuz I'm from Anchorage, Alaska. Oh. So Alaska is very diverse. It's it's quite Actually, it's a pretty good reflection of what you would find in the military bubble, if you will. So I left that bubble for the military bubble when I married my husband. It's like it was the second time I had relocated from Alaska because we, as a family when I was younger, we moved to Pittsburgh for a few years. What I think about the time that we did spend in Pittsburgh, it was not the best of neighborhoods. You mentioned colorism. A lot of the black folks I lived around, they always were like, calling me mixed, you know, you're mixed. And I didn't identify as mixed or biracial or multiracial or any of them. So my mom is a beautiful brown woman. And I have lighter skin. I look a little bit different.

 But I always identified as a black girl now black woman, but I got teased for my hair. I actually got like, well, there was one very memorable day in fifth grade. When I got off at my bus stop and in the entire bus got off with me. And they were going to jump me Oh, as they're screaming and yelling at me, you think you white and all this stuff. And so you talk about colorism and all of those things that I of course, did not want that for my future, either. There wasn't really a way for me to quote game the system. I just knew I didn't want that. I didn't think about it intentionally. But the older I got, the more I began to plan, I will go to college, I will do this. I like just I'm a very persistent person. Because I guess there shouldn't be shame and saying you want a good life. But it is sad. And it is a shame that you have to think of it in terms of I want privilege. Because when we witness that, and others, you know, you're held back, you know, there's barriers. And it's like, what can I do to overcome them? 

The world is set up society is set up so that it's like this race, and it shouldn't even be a race. And I always talk about you know, it does not have to be a zero sum game. When we talk about equity. If you are going into a building with stairs, and there's a person behind you in a wheelchair, putting in a wheelchair ramp to make that an equitable experience does not take away your stairs. It's just like, why why do we have to think of it in the binary like that, you know, but I totally get it. I mean, of course you want the best for your kids, especially when you experience those things.

Wanda 39:16

Yeah, because I tried anything I was doing consciously. But I guess I was because I truly didn't want them to have to struggle. And I said well, if I made sure you live in a better city than I did, or make sure you have better does and better that you wouldn't have to go through it. But they still have to go through it. And I think that was my heart the most with all this came out. And like my daughter and I were talking about one of her friends. And she's admits it as well. So in our relationship, I'm the black woman her dad is white, my daughter, and then her friend has a white mother and a black dad. But she came out a little bit more pill, hazel eyes and then her hair's a little blonde ish kind of lighter brown is currently the But when you straighten it, she can pass for White. And I never thought about it. And I really, it's kind of sad because even when I met the young lady at first, I didn't really color her like black or white, but I didn't assume she was black. I put it that way. You know, I didn't org men, I just thought she would just makes you Hispanic or something. And then when we met her, and we got to be friends with the family, I realized, like, Oh, she's mine. 

And then after talking to her and her antennas, and just her relationship, the culture and a family, she identified as a black Young lady, as my daughter, my daughter is a little darker than she is. But my daughter at heart, they made a comment of she's white passing, and I almost hit the floor. And this was recently like, a few months ago when all this came out, right. And I haven't heard that term since I was a kid. And then you know how we watched those movies about the older movies like in the 1930s. at the theater, there's a lot of movies out there. And there is about four or five movies that people don't know about that are very open in the 1940s 50s. I wish I had the numbers. But if you guys look at it, there's about white passing in or about a middle child passing for a white woman marry a white man and all this stuff. And so that, to me, that was an old school term. I would never thought that my 15 year old child was saying it to this day in 2020. I was like, what, what that that's term still exists? And she's like, Yes, Mom. Yes. And I was, that took me for a minute, because I was like, Okay, why are we talking about passing? You don't have to pass anymore? There's then almost like, wait a minute. Why is she saying that in 2020? So it is open up so many bosses right now? Like? I don't know. Well, I

Shawna  41:42

To be fair, I think that the term is still there. But the meeting has slightly changed change. Okay. Recently, I was told from one of my peers and my online course, because not everything was on the computer screen. She thought I was white until we did like a live zoom call. And she's like, well, I can't tell because from your hair, and from the little avatar in the picture, I thought you were white. On the computer screen, one could say that I was white passing, it was not an intentional thing. It's not that I was trying to pass as white. It's more about how you present. And that's the other word that's confusing. So when you say someone presents as white, it doesn't mean that they're putting their self forward to say, I hope everybody thinks I'm white. Because this is the way I'm presenting myself. It means how you come across.

Wanda  42:29

Mm hmm.

Shawna  42:30

So it's changed slightly. It's not like, I'm trying to gain privilege by passing as a white person in society. All the stuff. No, no, no. It just means that upon first glance, somebody would make that assumption. So I don't think you shouldn't be about it. Yeah, it's not really that connotation any longer.

Wanda 42:53

No, that makes perfect sense. Because she's a beautiful young lady. And she's not trying to pass away. She just vertical kids. They're all young ladies just trying to live their best life, and they just get dressed and go to school, and they do their thing. And I think now I truly understand. I'm glad you say something. But when my daughter said it, it just took me back. And you know, and are we there? I was just like, are we going that? Are we going backwards? So that's how, yeah, I just don't want to go backwards.

Shawna  43:20

I really don't. The administration has made it such that we have taken some step backwards. But the weirdest thing is it's like a dichotomy. Because while that is happening, there's also this huge surge forward. And so I think about it, like shifting plates, like, you know, talk about plate tectonics, you know, then those plates come together and cause that friction, there's going to be seismic activity, we're going to have an earthquake, you know, so, this is like to me a metaphorical earthquake right now, because we are seeing these two very polarized groups going at it with all of their force to overcome. One of the other is when we think about it, my kids, your kids, the future of this country, we have already seen the projections, there is no segregating anymore. People are loving who they want to love, they are embracing who they want to embrace. And that is what is right It does not matter what color you are does not matter how you identify. Everyone in my opinion, has the right to love and to be loved and to belong and to embrace others. And so I just got to feel in my heart that we have to be turning a corner

Wanda 44:34

right? Yeah, right. I

Shawna  44:36

didn't mean it like let me step down soapbox. I'm sorry. But I'm just saying

Wanda  44:41

no, you're good because I I just I love Love You know, I love love and I just want even love for like my friends and love for like kids and you know people strangers just like hey, Yes, ma'am. How can I help you? You know, and I just wish and does love that person. Part of our society where we could just just put humans just just help people this right by each other.

Shawna  45:07

I mean, that's a pretty simple ask like, could you just I mean, Mr. Rogers had it down, like, just be nice.

Wanda  45:15

You don't even have to change your shoes and your sweater just be like, nice. That's all I'm asking right now. And this, please just be nice. You know what, this is just been a wonderful like, time right now, because I think it's chaotic. But I'm appreciating it because I'm having so many great conversations with my family, and hearing their views like from a 20 year old telling me the way he saw the world, how he sees the world now and 15 year olds telling me what's going on in school, and what's the truth and, you know, sister boys, and I'm just like, wow, because I also think as adults, we kind of hustle so much, and we're so busy, as we're saying, and so trying to be productive and provide. We try to be that we forget about these people. And when we're talking about equality. It's also not even like a race equality or a gender equality, but it's also in ageism, like less love to children. Those are our future. So what they're seeing, is those gonna be our next presidents, our next congressman or Congresswoman. 

So what are we teaching them, they learned by us? And we just need to watch what we're saying what we're doing and how these open conversations. And that's the first time like, I kind of made me want to cry for a minute, because I'm just like, I was gaming the system. Like, I never thought about that. But I was like, my baby's gonna make it and they're gonna, but I'm like, I shouldn't think that way. But, but it's true. I was trying to make sure they had a privilege, they had advantages. And that's crazy. I never thought about it, talk to you. So thank you. That opened me up. That opened my eyes.

Shawna  46:58

I mean, but you, but I think that you were right, Wanda, like we. That's what parents want. They want the best. And unfortunately, society has made it that not everybody gets to have equal opportunity. But I think we're turning the corner. And I mean, I'm glad to have this conversation with you. In fact, actually, I'm just so appreciative, like you said, like, we are talking more as people than we ever have some of the conversations I'm having in my workplace, like, Oh, my God, if you would have talked about this stuff three years ago, four years ago, you kidding? No, people would be looking at you sideways, like, but now just this vulnerability, and this sense of humility that people are experiencing, I think, also really helps. I wanted to share a book review. Actually, I just finished it. It's an ethnography. So if you're interested, or anyone listening, that's interested. It's called white kids, actually, it's called white kids growing up with privilege in a racially divided American. It's by Margaret Hagerman. And it was so interesting, because, you know, one of the things that you just said was, they watch us they learn from us. And so this social scientist, she wanted to know, like, at what point, do things kind of begin to shift what age what causes it, whatever. So it's an interesting study. Basically, she follows these families in three distinct neighborhoods, but basically in the same kind of area. So like three parts of town, if you will. And so we talked to you and me a little bit about our growing up and that kind of community. So it's really interesting read anyway to look at these different areas and the kids and how she follows them and talks to them. So throwing that out there. Thank you, Miss Hagerman. 

Wanda  48:41

I got to look at that.

Shawna  48:42

Yeah, it's really interesting. Well, gosh, I feel like I could probably just keep on talking to you.

Wanda  48:48

Oh, goodness. But it was great conversation. Oh, my goodness. It was beautiful. Thank you.

Shawna  48:55

Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. And I just wish you the best with your continued success in your business and the best with your kiddos as they continue to come into their own as well. Yeah, it's been just a pleasure, Wanda.

49:10

Thank you. I appreciate so much honor. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having great conversations about this. We need it.

Shawna  49:17

Absolutely. My pleasure. You take care. Okay, bye. Okay, Carmen, what did you think of a conversation with Wanda and me?

49:32

I thought it was so interesting. I think especially when it comes to mothering. It's hard to not see it as something that is entirely intentional and just a lifelong commitment when it comes to every facet in your being right and not just mothering but I think mothering as a form of resistance to racism, mothering as a form of resistance to oppression as a form of uplifting your children, I think is a form of suffering. uplifting other bipoc, specifically, the black community. It's so interesting, like, you know, there's so much excellence in her personal story. And I think like, every step of the way, it sounds like it was what can I do for my children? What kind of life? What kind of world? Are my children gonna be living in? And very intentional? Yeah, exactly. And then hearing that that contrast of the fear and the sadness and the heartbreak around one of her children are both her children in middle school or high school expressing that yes, there is still racism, right? Like, I don't know what that conversation would have been like, but I can imagine just truly heartbreaking because it's like, I have done everything in my power to fight this, you know, and to uplift and to give you so much love and shape the world that you're in with so much love. And as a bipoc parent, as a black parent, like I think, you know, the entire thing is an act of resistance. And then you have the reality that your children are living in a world that the default is not built around their identity, right, like the default is built around whiteness around heteronormativity. around. I think oftentimes, sis men, and it's just like, what do you do? Right? But it's interesting hearing her just combating that with so much love to wants people to be good humans to help each other. Like, I think that's it's really beautiful. And it's empowering.

Shawna  51:24

Yeah, I think in so many situations, no matter what your identity is, if you're a mother, that's what you're trying to do. It might look different for every person. But one of the things she said was, you know, whether it be right or wrong, I wanted my kids to have privilege. And it's just like, when you think about it, when you break that down. It's not even really the quest for privilege, it's just the quest to be on equal footing. Exactly. Because if you have that, inherently, those things just come to you, right. But if you don't come with that, then it is a privilege to actually obtain it or to get I don't want to go as far as to say equal rights, but to have that kind of equity. Yeah, there's just this huge gap. And so in order to compensate for that gap, she's worked so hard to level that field for them. And then, like you said, to find out, even after all of that, some racism is still there, and it's still being inexperienced.

52:24

Mm hmm. And that kind of makes me wonder, too. So you know, at one point, she says, like it, I think our kids now aren't built the way we were in that, you know, she talks about the spitting like people spitting on on black kids when she was a child and things like that, like that violent racism. And I think the racism, that at least I've experienced in my life, I can't speak for other people. But I think now we understand that there's kind of like an umbrella of racism, like racism doesn't have to be physically violent. It can be emotionally violent. It can be Oh, yeah, we talked about there's drama there. Oh, yeah, exactly. And I think like, we, I have tools that differ from the tools that my parents generation had when it came to identifying racism, right, like, racial slurs, things like that. Like that was a normal occurrence in one of my parents lives. And I think that's the most evident form of racism. But now, like, I have the tools to talk about experiences where maybe a racial slur wasn't used, but I know that the experience the interaction, I have this tinge with racism, right. And I think it's interesting, because it's like, we have the power to identify the experiences now and be like, that was racist, you know, and it's, we've expanded the way that we can say that was racism. And I think people are starting to understand that differently.

Shawna  53:41

Yeah, there's the micro actions. Right, exactly. Micro inequities, micro aggressions. There's all of these sorts of subtle things death by paper cut, right? Yeah, by little by little by little. And it's what makes those so very difficult, is it's almost like a gaslighting happening at the same time, because you're trying to point out, Hey, I know that they didn't say these very overtly racist things to me, but this is what I experienced and this racism, but because you can't point directly to what would have been seen as a racist act years ago. And instead it's this like, microaggression.

Carmen  54:19

Mm hmm.

Shawna  54:20

A lot of the people really want to be defensive of maybe something they said or did

Carmen  54:24

Oh, definitely

Shawna  54:25

are typically uncomfortable with the idea of privilege and specifically white privilege, you know, so much so that President Trump has even declared that no one can use the term white print. Yeah.

Carmen  54:37

Yeah. Well, I think another part of it too, is it like it makes people realize deep down that like, the level that they're at has nothing to do with meritocracy. Like it's about there has been a power imbalance the entire way. Like the neighborhoods you live in the jobs you've had the education you've gotten, you know, the whole idea of like, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, the path to where you've gotten, you know, it paid To over pads that could have been taken by by pox, like it just wasn't an option for other people. And that's not to say that people, you know, didn't work hard, weren't good people, etc, etc. But it's that like, there's such inequity in the pathway to success, like when we talk about like the American dream and things like that, like it just was not built with, in my opinion, non white people in mind. And so people start to be like, Oh, my God, like, my foundation is Rocky, you know, but it's like, but I've worked hard, but I did this, blah, blah, blah. And I think people start to realize that the lives they've built are kind of built on an equity.

Shawna  55:36

Yeah. That's hard to face, I'm sure. Yeah. And you don't want to take that away from them that I'm sure that you worked hard. And there were things that you earned. But when you get a head start, did you really win the race? 

Carmen  55:50

Exactly. Oh, no, exactly. 

Shawna  55:53

Well, it was really a good conversation. I loved talking to her so much. All right, I guess we better call it an episode. Take care of yourself. Until next time,

Carmen  56:04

you too. I'll be talking about my next soup recipe.

Shawna  56:10

Alright,

Carmen  56:11

take care. Take care. So no.

Shawna  56:19

That's it for this episode of our true colors. Thanks so much for hanging out. I do hope you enjoyed the conversation with Wanda and if you did, I encourage you please to go to Apple podcasts and scroll down on the Show page. I rate the show five stars and leave a nice review so that others can check us out and join our conversations too. If there's anything that you'd ever like to talk about a topic I haven't covered yet, please let me know. You can go to True Colors cast comm or you can find the contact page. Send me a message. Let me know what's up and the great ideas that you have to share. In the meantime, be safe out there. Y'all take care of each other. Okay, share, smile, and please find an opportunity to make someone feel welcome. love y'all. Talk to you soon.

Audio Tag  57:03

You've been listening to our true colors.