Caught Between Worlds with Dr. Christopher Riddick

While Washington, DC is the city where he resides, Dr. Christopher Riddick
is a proud son of North Carolina and hails from the rural county of Gates. His upbringing was significant in shaping his identity and fuels many of his passions today. Dr. Riddick is intent on helping organizations truly exhibit what they frequently say but are often challenged to demonstrate: that people are their most valuable assets. Dr. Riddick is a devoted husband and father of three. He is a lover of music, bacon, and bourbon and enjoys quality time with friends when any or all three are present.

In this episode we focus on belonging...even within one's perceived cultural community. Dr. Riddick shares his experiences with trying to fit in when not seen as Black enough or when seen as too Black. He also talks with Yolandie and me about judgment associated with the perceived identity of one's significant other.

Here are some other resources to check about topics mentioned in this episode:

• Colorism and the Paper Bag Test
• Code-switching: 4 Forum voices on what it is – and why we need to talk about it
• Why dark-skinned black girls like me aren't getting married

If this is your first time with OTC, check out  EPISODE 1: START HERE for more background on the show. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram!

Interested in being a guest? Head to this link to share your story with us!

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Transcript

Intro  
Welcome to our True Colors hosted by Sean again. Join her as she explores the challenges of being a racial, racial, and ethnic enigma and a cultural conundrum. Let's dive in.

Shawna  
Welcome, welcome to another episode. This week is super exciting. Yolandie and I are welcoming Dr. Chris Riddick. Hello, welcome.

Dr. Riddick  
Hello. Hey, how you doing?

Shawna  
Good. So glad to have you this week. And just really excited to hear your story. As usual, whenever I meet with guests, we talk a little bit about their situation, and so on. And Chris definitely has really great insights and some powerful experiences to talk about with us. And I think these are things that so many people so many listeners would really relate to. Before we get started, can you just introduce yourself a bit? Tell us a little bit about yourself?

Dr. Riddick  
Sure, sure. Greetings from Washington, DC. I am from Northland originally, so I have been in his DC area for awhile. 13 years permanently with hair off and on over the years. But I'm Narconon native, and I'm happily married three young children all under the age of nine. So if anyone can relate to parenting, send a good thought out for your brother here, because I'm tired. 

I have you worked in the management consulting field, since 2009, various different places, you know, had some focus on some federal government agencies. Now the work I do is really focused on diversity, equity inclusion, which has always been a passion of mine, but never really had opportunity to do this work professionally until last year. So I've been in the DEI world… sales consultant, a little over a year now. And that's been enlightening, to say the least right? But yeah, I'm happy to be here. I'm involved in various things from my university - University Northland, Chapel Hill, various things in the DC area. But honestly, I think of all the things that I do, you know, to sort of bring father, being a husband, and a son, certainly those things that have been the most salient for me.

Shawna  
It sounds like you know, with your, your work, your background, and sort of the kinds of things that we talked about here on True Colors, I'm sure that you found lots of connections. And as you said, it's likely that it's been quite enlightening for you to see things through this sort of different lens, you're like, What is going on? Or that's what's going on or, or whatnot? Well, welcome. 

You know, one of the things that we talk about quite a bit is just identity in general. Uh, for a lot of folks, I, no matter where you're from, what you look like, what your background is, your family, you know, makeup, any of that we all have to figure out like who we are. The funny part is, as long as it takes us to do that, and I don't know about y'all, but I'm still sort of like always figuring out who I am. The funny part is that other people are busy trying to figure us out all the time.

Dr. Riddick  
Yeah, you know, I come from a very rural environment in North Carolina. And where I come from, you know, there's a lot of just binary stuff, right? Black folks, white folks know your man, you're a woman. And there's only those real choices, right? If I want to joke, there's either fried food, or barbecued food. That's sort of how it is. But what I will say and some of that comes this notion of tone of skin color. And for being from a rural environment, it's sort of difficult for us to think beyond a lot of these total binary ways that we think, for me, that certainly influenced the way that I thought leaving my hometown going to university. 

But what's been interesting is I think the last piece people trying to figure figure me out, you know, I do not believe that there's any ambiguity at all and if anyone were to see me, but what I have found is that when I've gone other places, particularly other countries, there's certainly been some figuring out some guessing sometimes the wrong assumptions. Sometimes even here, you know, people will think that I'm someone else or a different races, different ethnicity. But I think for me, the fun has been, you know, one still continuing to learn and grow, figure out who I am and fatherhood have certainly been the most influential in that. But getting a kick out of honestly folks trying to figure me out and sort of seeing it happen in real time. So I think your rose bottle?

Yolandie  
Yeah. Oh, so I have to share a story that I completely forgot about and my fiance reminded me of. He came across my dating profile like three separate times because I was in and out and I was like, I'm holding, I'm dating. I'm gonna find somebody and then I was like, screw this. I'm done. One of those times. I had a question in there asking, guess what mix of ethnicities I am, because I have been mistaken for Puerto Rican Indian, indigenous Filipino Italian like You name it. People have gasped like, oh, that's what you are right? And so it became like this fun game for me to have people figure out, like, what what am I so to speak, and you guys can't see where you're listening. But the air quotes are there. And he said, he, when he saw that he was like, “Ooh, I'm not even going to touch that with a 10-foot pole.” And he swiped no on me. And it became such a fun center of conversation, like the ones who did attempt. They related because they also had a strange mix of their background, one guy that I dated for a while off of that question, he was Russian and I think it was an Alaskan native tribe. And which was a really interesting mix. So he of course, had to comment and like we got along really well. But I just thought that that was an interesting point that you made like that people are, you know, just like playing this guessing game, it became like a point of power and mystery for me. Whereas like, my now fiance saw it and was like, “ uh uh! Not for me!”

Dr. Riddick  
So you know, and our hometown, are you somebody who sort of just all phrases Oh, term. So my father will be what some people, some people call them “red’, some people call the “high yellow”, these are these these things we hear, you know, in these rural environments, my mother, that's a nice, brown tone. Right. So I have this sort of combination of the two of their complexions. And my children have, you know, just various complexities as well. Well, I've been an interesting, interesting environments. You know, I remember I think my wife and I were in Mexico, I think it was Acapulco, we’ve been to Paris, and people will come up to us, and we'll start talking another language thinking back, no, we speak that language. So where there are people, and we have certainly been in some environments where like, No, we don't speak the language. We’re American speak English. And in some cases, it's almost sort of like, well, why are you denying your heritage kind of thing? It's like, no, you need to trace your roots, like, you know, and almost sort of like not not accepting the fact that we weren't who people thought we were supposed to be, like, “Hey, I'm gonna give you… if you didn't go on this tour, I'm gonna give you like this language” like, no, that's, that's not the one for us. I am still just holding it like, “No, you're supposed to take it”,

Shawna  
Oh like the audio guide thing? They're deciding for you which one you need?

Dr. Riddick  
I know, this is the one I like, this is not no one. But you're right. You know, I haven't really had any circumstances. But too many circumstances like that. And I think many major American cities, I certainly have folks with thought were Hispanic or not, but many opportunities or incidences, you know, sort of in different countries. And like I said, the one case where it's almost like the person was thinking, almost getting upset thinking that I'm benign, no, some heritage like, like, I'm not trying to embrace him as a brother, so to speak. So you're right, you're right. This certainly causes some interesting conversations, to say the least.

Shawna  
I have to tell you, I had such a similar experience where I almost, I was like, walking away. Like, I feel like I'm supposed to be ashamed. I don't know. I was at a Rite Aid, like just checking out at Rite Aid as people do. And the woman like, whenever it was time for me to pay in a shooting at my stuff. She said something to me in Spanish, I guess, telling me what my total was, or whatever. I don't know. And I don't speak Spanish anymore. I still understand some things but I know enough to say, I don't speak Spanish. And she looked at me as if just like, I felt like my parents were being criticized my ancestors would be like everybody it was it was deep. This look she gave me like, Excuse me, how dare you not know what your like native language should be? Like this accusation? And I was just like, oh, my gosh, like I am? Oh, no, I don't have that's not even my, my ancestry. Right. Right. Right. So I totally get that. And Yolandi. I have to go back to something you said about this dating profile. You said it was like a power kind of thing? Well, just a question is that because of so many folks, I mean, I've been asked the question, what are you and where are you from? And all the things that we're used to being asked? Did it come from that where you're like, I'm just gonna get ahead of this and just go ahead and start guessing before I have to go through the whole conversation. I don't know. I just wanna know more about that.

Yolandie  
Yeah, it was like, I had the world's best kept secret. And rather than go through the, you know, they make assumptions. I yeah, I guess I was just like, I'm just gonna put it right up there. Like, I'm not probably what you think I am. So let's talk about it. Let's just open the door for that conversation. And rather than you making assumptions and just guessing here, here's your platform. Go ahead. Make your guess and we'll talk about it. So yeah.

Shawna  
And then your fiance now fiance was like, I know better. I don't I'm not doing that. Wow. That's so interesting to me because, you know, I, I'm not multiracial, multi ethnic, but I'm pretty much a black woman. But for those of you who haven't heard my stories on previous episodes, part of my family is Creole. And that in itself lends this very interesting mix and so on. But I have found, well, I'm more comfortable talking about that and addressing all the questions, I have never taken the approach to just be like, before you ask, let's play a game.

Yolandie  
Well, it was funny to just to speak off Chris's international experiences, I took a trip for the first time out of the country last fall, and we went to Rome. And we would go places. And I spent a good deal of time before this trip learning Italian enough to get around anyway. And enough that I could like read menus, and which, disappointingly, most of it was in English, because they have so many tourists. But in places that it wasn't, it came in handy. And I was all prepared, you know, like to give the Italian greetings and walk into places. And if I walked in first, they would greet me in Italian. If my fiancee walked in first, who is a six, five white, redheaded man, they would greet us in English. And there were a couple of instances where the street vendors that were trying to, like sell you things would you know, approach us and I was actually super proud of this one. She walked by and tried to sell me something. And I said, no good idea. And she was like, oh, Italian sorry, I kept walking. And then she approached my fiancee, and he was like, no, no thanks. And she like, kept she was persistent with him. But all I just said it in Italian. She was like, oh, nevermind, you're not a tourist. I just found that. So interesting.

Shawna  
Awesome. That is interesting. Also, because depending on where you are, this sort of hierarchy or this built in, I guess I want to say like what is valued or appreciated by people. In terms of your background, you're in Europe, most of the time, it's mostly about your nationality, what country you're from, not necessarily what you look like. But I do think that that's very interesting. But you know, where we live in the US, there's definitely this sort of, I believe, and I think there's studies that support this European standard of beauty are the sense that if you look this way, if you present this way, you are treated differently, and that can even happen, you know, within an ethnic group. American colorism

Dr. Riddick  
Yeah, I mean, let's be honest, right, you know, we hear these terms like good hair, right? Now if a person is we're here to sort of like bare skin and do like beating attacks with the lighter someone is and you know, there's a straighter their hair is or, or how good their hair is, you know, even if a person appears to be, quote, unquote, articulate all these kinds of things. And I know, especially living in a city like Washington, DC was such a rich history of colorism and any major cities right now, I can tell you that the church, well, back in the day, you know, I think the church just finally had their first service in person. No, they hadn't had service in two years. But I hear stories of this church literally the “light-skinned folks” sat on one side and “dark skinned folks” than the other side back in the early hundreds, right? And this notion of these other better folks, these are not you know, these are folks with a better jobs who post with a harder jobs or jobs or all these other people who are more financially stable of these other folks who might need no assistance there. And these perceptions, and I'm saying these things as not fat, just perceptions. And not and I can tell you that I believe that, you know, my friendships in many ways have been people who are not black I think have been made easier for those people because I think they feel more comfortable with me. I certainly have had folks say things to me as if like, oh, you understand Chris, like, like, I'm not I'm not like those other people. Right? You're like us, you get it Chris kind of kind of thing. Even if we look in entertainment, right? We look at Entertainment, we look you know, even professionals can look at all these university presidents and just you know, CEOs, and that in many ways, one sort of even career path, I think is partially enabled because of people feeling comfortable with them. Right. And I think there's there if we want to really get serious about it. I think we can even see how color has influenced that you know. My even getting an interview for one and then proceeding through an interview process, my being able to make a case for raise my being able to make a case or promotion, or even for before I make a case. So I'm gonna say you know, “there is something about that Chris Riddick guy I really like” As opposed to before Skiba my own brother who's were born in the same day, July 23. He's eight years older than I have skin tone is darker than mine because his goes by sizes different amount. And I think there are lot of things that influence that can be influenced by color. And a sad, I think we sometimes we associate intellect with a lighter skinned black person, we associate maybe like more physical prowess with someone who's darker. And that's put me in some very weird positions at times where, you know, have white friends, you know, making these assumptions about me. And then sometimes even black folks making certain assumptions about me as well.

Shawna  
Yeah, I mean, so much of what you just said, like even thinking about the church situation, there was the paper bag test, right? Like,

Dr. Riddick  
There is history of sororities doing this. Right. So we're all on the same thing. And,

Shawna  
You know, people talk a lot about white privilege. But, you know, I have mentioned on the show, even light, privileged, it's this proximity to whiteness, right? That's, that's valued. Yeah. And because this is recognized, it comes out, or it's manifest in other interesting ways to like, maybe being judged, like who you're with, like, my, my husband is a white man. You know, Yolandie just described her situation. So, you know, as people, even within your community look at you, and why you've decided to be…

Dr. Riddick  
Or the assumptions that are made before, right. So when I started dating, my wife, and I was down home for a holiday, and it might have been like, a Thanksgiving or something like that. And I miss it, you know, that, you know, his new girlfriend, and I got all these questions. “is she white?... Is she white…is she white?” And I do remember those one because and I found like, no, have my home with me, probably, that Christmas, most later, someone came over literally set like what he said it was, but I had to come see for myself.

Shawna  
Right. So that was really important to them. 

Dr. Riddick  
Yeah, if you're “ asuccessful, you're a black man”. And, you know, as people think, white man do it, then you're not going to be over black woman. And people literally had them validate that, like, my new girlfriend was, in fact, black, even though I said it. So my word was not taken. I've had folks who have made assumptions, you know, just based off of, you know, if you see like a Facebook posts or something like that, or you see like a picture, sometimes because of lighting situations, you might not know, you know, could be ambiguous, you know, and, and Facebook picture quality years ago, certainly not what it used to be now, and people saying, you know, where your wife is Asian, like, my wife's not. right, but sort of saying almost like a, like a dig kind of thing. Like, where you don't love us kind of thing. So you're right. So the assumptions about the things you do, who you're with habits, all that kind of stuff. 

You know, I've been in the barber shop, you know, and, and saying the things right, and just trying to get my hair cut. And literally you guys like, “what are you a lawyer or something?” And I'm like, What are you talking about? You use all these big words, and trying to nickname me, you know, “Sinatra” was actually what he called me, which is awkward. Right? And, and, and, yeah, so you're right. So the assumptions that we make, and then the judgments that sometimes can be made. What comes along with the way I'm apparently supposed to talk the places I'm supposed to go to, the people I'm supposed to date and marry, the children I'm supposed to have, the music I'm supposed to listen to, the food I'm supposed to eat, the places I'm supposed to vacation at. It's been so real. And having, you know, black folks in so many ways try to tell me that I'm not quote unquote, “real.” But then having white folks still think I'm too real. It's very, it's awkward. So it's very Oh,

Shawna  
wow. So the children you're supposed to have. Oh, interesting. That!

Dr. Riddick  
Right. Right.

Yolandie  
So what's interesting about that is it brings to mind a friend of mine. She's white, her husband is white. And they adopted a little boy from Uganda. And she said when they first brought him home, this was maybe five years ago now I think they would get looks in the grocery store. Because they had this very dark little boy with them. And he was calling them mom and dad. And so her her assumption was that people were looking at her as she put it trailer trash who got knocked up and then married a white man for his money. And I just Yeah, I just thought that is not an assumption I would have ever made in my life. But that was where that was her perspective and where she came from, as well. Yeah, and then and now she's adopted a little girl from East India she looks more Asian than Indian but now when people see them all together as a family they just assume that they've adopted these children but without this little girl she was this gold digger and trailer trash woman.

Dr. Riddick  
Wow yeah. Wow that near the money I've heard good credit thing or she wants to look good credit SFI. I would have bad credit like so. It's all All these things are so embedded in the comments. This awful.

Shawna  
I mean, even just thinking about the composition of the family making a difference as to what people's opinions are. So I told you my husband's white, my children pretty much look like white kids. It's so interesting when my son was still in a stroller, I may have told this story on the show before I don't know. But we were at a mall, my husband was in a different shop looking at something and I was in a jewelry like, look, you know how like the jewelry stores, the counters kind of are still in the mall part. So you can kind of walk by and look in. So I had the stroller and I was just kind of looking in the in the case. And the woman came over and she says, “Oh, he's adorable.” And I was like, “well, thanks”. You know, he's still pretty little, like, thank you. And she said, “it's so nice when couples can adopt little ones”. I was like, You're right, that is so nice. This one I carried him but

Dr. Riddick  
or, or being assumed that you're the nanny of the child, right? That the child's not even yours at all.

Shawna  
Ot that!

Yolandie  
That sounds like my experience. Yeah, I'm when my son was born. I, when my son was born, I take him to the doctor, and the nurses would come in, you know, to do all the pre stuff before the doctor himself comes in. And they would always ask me, oh, what do we have here today, mom? And I'm like, what? Who else is showing up with this one week old baby? She's got this scarf or not? So like, yeah, they just assume that you're it's not yours. And that's sad,

Shawna  
you know, and then the judgment, I'm still trying to process the story about how people jump to conclusions about what this woman must have done. But I mean, there's judgment, there's judgment everywhere, within your community outside of your community. You know, Chris, going back to something you mentioned, you talked about these assumptions of, you know, what you must be like, even including, like your career and things like that, because of the way that you speak. And when I think about speaking or other ways that we present ourselves, how are you dress or whatever, but specifically how we speak or how I spoken, you know, growing up and so on, people would say the things like why do you talk right? Or are you trying to be white? Or it's like, this constant battle of how can I prove that I'm black enough, right, but still be myself? You know, how can I still be authentic, but also satisfy whatever requirement is there to be black enough?

Dr. Riddick  
That's a dilemma, right? Because, you know, I want to, you know, a predominantly white institution, returning only white institution. But we would go to these other campuses to try to promote parties. And this is back in the day, we have handbills, who would pass and handbills, that there's no Facebook, like invite for a party, like you actually have to go places to let people know that we're going to event going on campus. And we would go to you know, different universities in the area of historically black colleges and universities. And there was always this notion of what you all learn from this campus. I immediately like well, you all are from here kind of being and then even this notion of do I sort of try to switch up the way I talk to try to like get people like, “Hey, check this out”, like what do I do? To try to show some degree of like, hey, you know, we’re people at the same time still be my authentic self, you know, how do I talk when I go to my hometown, you know, how I talk when I'm at, you know, this particular event or not? And in many ways, it really puts you in between so many worlds, right? Because you have some people who are like, this guy sounds white. 

And then all the things that come along with that, right? Oh, he must think that he's better, whatever, all this kind of stuff. But then you have like, white folks is saying, like, you're talking to all this black stuff, Chris, and you're, you're radical and you need to calm down, like Oh, so it's like, What world do I fit in? When all I'm doing is bringing myself right. And as I mentioned, I cannot even get a haircut without someone making an assumption about a profession. And here's the thing is being a lawyer bad thing I don't know. But as being like, I don't know like a blue-collar worker like a bad thing like no so it's like we make all these assumptions this one make me better or not based off this assumption of the work that can come out of my mouth. And if you're like too black for some folks and too light for other folks then like you find yourself sort of coalescing with other folks who are like you who sort of understand all of that stuff and we sort of joke about it at dinners and stuff but but but a sad at the same time trying to find a sense of community.

Shawna  
I mean, that's what we talk about on the show, right? This finding this sense of belonging when you don't quite fit anywhere, somehow you fit everywhere, but you don't belong anywhere. It's so odd. Yeah,

Dr. Riddick  
I think my fraternity right Oh, phi alpha, you know, if you think his you know, like stereotypically Historically, alphas on Alaskan black folks, stereotypically, so we're not right. We're not, we're so many shades of color, right? But you think, you know, the alphas are the light skinned guys and make some fast dark skinned guys, and so forth. And then even that alpha sort of smart guys, you know, the key is sort of like rough around the edges kind of thing. And if people who have gravitated towards one person, I was like, I want the smart guy like, oh, I want I want the buff guy, like, all that stuff that comes along with it. But then what happens is, sometimes stereotypes do beget themselves, right? So this way, if you look at everyone on my players class, for the most part, they have the same shade. If you look at my people came before us people came after us, for the most part, you know, we have sort of the same sort of same shades even though there's a lot of variation, like so in many ways you start to see this stuff is like, a pattern. So if we're stereotype is intellectual, so for stereotypes being like a smart foe, the if you're new on camp, and you think like, oh, I want to be the smart guys, right? I want to be the ladies guys over here, you know, like suave, and debonair campus, all I want to be, you know, sort of, like more Bruton sort of hardcore, like, that's, that's your cues, right? So you get this stuff. And in many ways, even though there are stereotypes, it does have a certain degree of attraction. And, and not only for people are attracted to the, to the organizations, but the people are trying to do, right. So you know, you have ladies and men who will say, oh, I want to I want to be an Alpha Man, I want to be an a Mega Man, right, because of the assumptions that come along, all those as well. So it's just a long way of saying that in this sort of world of sort of trying to find like belonging, you're like too much for this group. And in too much for that group, you can find some sense of community with folks who who sort of collectively get that struggle. But then the flip side of that is like, now you've reminded yourself of why you don't fit anywhere else.

Shawna  
Interesting. Yeah. I mean, that's just psychology too, right? We are typically attracted to people who are most like us, and that's how groups formed. That's how people you know, find themselves with culture and things like that. It's those sort of like that, like mindedness or something that's like, that's just kind of how it can work. And I don't know, it's interesting how that can play out and work too, you know, going back to something you talked about earlier with privileges. And, you know, I just kind of like this person, but not putting their finger on it. Or maybe they know, but you know, these days, people are very careful about what they admit, you know, so I don't know, it's interesting to see these same kinds of dynamics play out in the workplace, especially when you surprise people because they think that you're one way, and then you show up, and they're like, oh, oh, they're not this way. You know, I saw them and they enter you and I met them, and they formed some impression, but then when you show up, and you're like, hey, this is authentically me. This is my true colors, it can sort of freak people out a little bit.

Dr. Riddick  
You know, I look at workplace dynamics, often, right? I'll look at, especially black folks, people call it like, where do you have to go to school in order to help people make you feel comfortable? what degree do you have to have in order to make people take a chance, and in some cases, looking at connection, you know, I look at organizations and I look at where, you know, this white person went to college, and I started looking at, you know, the people at the organization, oh, they weren't the same university. So they felt comfortable of making that hire, because of the light assembler University. And so it's like, here's a black person who was like me. So I feel comfortable with that person, because they're like me, then I start to look at who hangs out with each other at lunchtime, right? Who goes to happy hour together? When it's Monday, and you're walking back into these other old days going back into the work? Do you overhear this conversation about oh, I was at such a such as house over to over the weekend, we had a great time, like, who starts doing those? And who gets that sort of golden ticket to be included? And on the flip side, who are the people that are not invited? Right? Who are the people that are not included? Who do people do not feel as though they belong in the workplace? Now, as a dei practitioner, I think about this stuff a lot. And how does belonging sort of influence persistence at work, attrition at work? And then how do we start to layer these sort of like, you know, these other aspects like, color and complexion to all of it?

Shawna  
Yeah, absolutely. I don't know. And, you know, when you think about the sense of belonging, have you ever come across a situation where well, I thought I belonged, but then there's this shift, like, you know, perhaps things begin to change

Dr. Riddick  
in a variety of ways, right? So you know, I'm a bit Public Enemy fan. And there's one part of one of their routes, says every brother and a brother and essentially it's like, you cannot make assumptions that just because you see someone who looks like you, they're gonna embrace you that they're gonna sort of like, create some sense of coming To be with you. And I've certainly been in environments where I've seen, you know, vote right. And I'm thinking those are my people have been made the jump through more hoops will quote, quote my own people than any other vote, I've been a certain consulting environments where you know white partners who like comment by my first name, you don't know how to go through my executive assistant to set up some time with me directly I'm happy to meet with you. Whereas all black folks have given me like, it's almost hazing. And but what you're going through the interview process, you're thinking like, you know, folks, and they're saying all the great things and you think, Oh, this is gonna be awesome. And then you show up, you step in and environment is so uniquely different. Or not only am I doing what some of my folks who are questioning my ability that I take someone else's spot to be there. But now I sort of don't want folks who I thought were welcoming and inviting during the process. And they are making me jump through so many hoops just as just a meet. You know, so I've certainly had that. And even some of the other things, not a volunteer some some stuff around here. And just sort of seeing what I thought was, you know, you know, this is why we need to own this board and and then you sort of join and then you realize that either one, maybe you were token eyes, or two, like the black folks, that you're the you're the competition or like I'm the one you can't take my like, now you're here like so this so many things has happened over the past few years. less of that right now. I can't say that I'm completely, you know, sort of out of debt, but less of that now than before.

Shawna  
Yeah, that scarcity thing can show up sometimes. And it's a shame that because of a lot of the systemic issues and and you know, the things that we've been working for so very long to overcome, you know, those things show up and manifest in those ways rather than supporting one another. Or there's this feeling of competition. Yeah,

Dr. Riddick  
that's if there's only room for one, right? As if like, Hey, I'm here, I'll work hard to be here. I'm not going to help anyone take that away from me. Like, I'm not trying to threaten any of that. Like, let's, let's all be here, like, you don't have to be the one person right. I can be here for you. So So you're right. So the scarcity of this sometimes create the sort of unfair competition and pits people who should be, you know, aligned with one another against one another?

Yolandie  
Yeah. Sadly, it just reminds me of like the Highlander situation. Like there can only be one, you know, like, Why? Why can there only be one? Is that a rule somewhere unwritten? I just it never made any sense to me, but I totally understand exactly what he means.

Shawna  
Yeah. Wow. Well, this has been such a good conversation. All of these things are things that we could talk about so much more. Yeah, forever. So, but thank you so much for sharing your time with us and your type. Appreciate it. So where can we find you?

Dr. Riddick  
So certainly I you know, Christopher dot Riddick gmail.com Linked in. If anyone wants to have any more conversation you find, you know, LinkedIn, and Pittsburgh, Ed. And I'm happy to continue any discussion, and we'll want to have an important time.

Shawna  
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Great talking to you. And the app is fantastic. All right. Take care. Bye along the way, does it for this episode of our true colors. Thanks so much for hanging out. As always, I love having you here and I love to hear from you. So please, if there's something that you would like to talk about if you are interested in being a guest or you can recommend somebody reach out to me, you can find me on true colors. cast.com or you can head on over to true colors dei.com which is a great place to check things out if you are interested in diversity, equity and inclusion services. This episode and all episodes of our true color are sponsored by True Colors consulting, it's a wild world out there y'all be safe out there. Share a smile with somebody. And please, if you can find an opportunity to make someone feel welcome, love y'all. And I'll talk to you soon.

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