Meet Kat: Creating Spaces for Underrepresented Voices

In this episode, Shawna Gann introduces the new season of the podcast with one of her two co-hosts, Kat Aragon. They discuss their cultural backgrounds, the importance of representation in the beauty industry, and the need for advocacy and allyship. Kat shares her experiences as a makeup artist and the challenges faced in ensuring diversity in beauty products. The conversation emphasizes the significance of taking action in allyship and the importance of creating spaces for underrepresented voices.

Other stuff to check out:

• Vintage Bandaid Commercial
• Browndages 
• This Is the Worst Way to Make an Inclusive Foundation Shade
• This brand made a BLACK Foundation!?
• The 5 S's of Engagement: Navigating Your Path Through Allyship

Want to be a guest or know someone who should join us? Click this link to complete the guest interest form.

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Transcript

Shawna Gann (00:00)
Hey everybody. I am so very happy that we're back for another season. This is really going to be a great one. I know it is. I mean, they all are, but I just have this extra special feeling. And what's really cool about this season is

What's different than ever before is I now have two podcast co -hosts. So with me today is Kat Aragon. You're gonna get to meet her and learn all about her. She is an amazing human. I just have had such a great time. We got to talk a couple of times, of course, before diving into this adventure. And she just has such a story to tell, has great perspective, and I just think you're gonna love her. So I'm gonna be quiet and ask her to introduce herself. So hey, Kat.

Kat Aragon (00:42)
Hi, thanks for having me as always. I'm gonna say that every time, because I'm just so excited to be here. As far as a little bit about me, so my name is Kat Aragon you mentioned, My dad was in the Air Force. We traveled everywhere. I actually even lived in the Philippines where my mom was from for a few years. So I have a little bit

real -time experience there and in the culture Which I think I'm sure we'll cover that at some point which I think is very helpful very helpful in my perspective on some things but Yeah, so, you know, we did all the traveling. I'm the Airforce his brat, right?

Shawna Gann (01:08)
sure. Definitely. Yeah.

Kat Aragon (01:18)
we're all in the creative field. So a little bit about that. My husband's a photographer.

My daughter owns a spa, literally steps away from our photography studio. And my other two girls, are in ...one's in graduate school at UCLA for costume and wardrobe development for film and television. And the other one is in cinema as an undergraduate at VCU right now. So very much like not planned. We all do something different in the creative field, but it just happened to be that way where we all fell into those as our passions. And I'm a makeup artist.

Shawna Gann (01:36)
Wow, very cool.

Kat Aragon (01:53)
have been for the last 25 years now. That started with my mom's salon. She's been a hairstylist since, I know since I was five years old because that's when I started getting perms. So that's the only reason I know how long she's been.

Shawna Gann (02:00)
you're like five -year -old with perms. It's gonna happen because mama got a practice sit down

Kat Aragon (02:09)
Yes, perms. I actually, it's a funny story, actually thought I had curly hair my entire life until 10 years old. And one day I was like, what would happen if we just combed it through instead of curling it up? And this is what happens when you just comb it through. I had stick straight hair, I had no idea. Found out at around 10, 11 years old. And yeah, so that's a little bit about my past. And I'm sure we'll go more into the makeup side of things shortly, but that's just it in a nutshell.

Shawna Gann (02:36)
Sure. You know how families have family bands? Because everybody either sings or plays an instrument. I don't know what to call that when everybody has... You're like just a family studio ready to... But it's not like just creative. Because creatives are... But you've got costume and makeup and the camera's ready and a studio. It's a whole production family.

Kat Aragon (02:40)
Yes. Part two.

I just say family of creatives. I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah, I joke that like one day it makes sense for us to have a movie because and then also because we obviously have the cinema student but also my family all of them cook. All of them are amazing like chefs and I'm like we need a dinner theater where Taylor will cook and then go and like put the costumes on somebody. We'll be doing makeup, we'll be doing all the things and I was like and we need a movie on it so I just don't even know how that's all gonna collide but you know we one day it might.

Shawna Gann (03:10)
yeah, yeah, yeah, there's that, sorry.

My God.

You could do like the, the Bridgerton throwback and everyone's got costumes, there's royalty and food and everyone looks glamorous and amazing, like impeccable.

Kat Aragon (03:39)
I see it. I'm ready for somebody to hear this and be like, we have the perfect plan for this family. Pitch us.

Shawna Gann (03:44)
Right? No kidding. All right. I mean, it's out there. Okay, universe, do your thing. Do what you do. Wow. Yeah, okay. So I am pretty enamored. Like, that's really cool. I started as a music major and then moved into teaching, but I never kind of gave up the music. Obviously, here I am doing this, but in between have done all sorts of other.

Kat Aragon (03:49)
Exactly.

Shawna Gann (04:06)
creative stuff, you know, moving through life. My oldest is a drag performer. My youngest is a visual artist. And my husband has to deal with us. No kidding. He actually, for a little while, he was a graphic artist in the Air Force. you know, that counts. So I get it. We don't have... I mean, I love it though, right? Like, it's... There's a... It's a lot of fun.

Kat Aragon (04:23)
It's fun, keeps us young.

Shawna Gann (04:34)
I don't know that if I had a job, even as a consultant, I get to be creative because I'm solutioning, right? So, or creating trainings or something. So, I mean, I really dig it, but all of ours are sort of like discrete things. Yours, you guys are like a package.

Kat Aragon (04:51)
funny and the only way that it's like come together in any way actually. So my daughter is home from graduate school right now and she may be styling some things for upcoming photo shoots that we do for agencies and model, you know, books and stuff like that. So she'll get some of her portfolio together while here. And then our photography lends well to when Maddie comes home and decides she wants to film something on a cyclorama wall that we have. Like, so we have all the parts for them to utilize,

Shawna Gann (05:17)
Circle. Yeah.

Kat Aragon (05:20)
Again, not necessarily anything planned together. Yeah. Exactly.

Shawna Gann (05:23)
Yeah, but you know, things sometimes just come together. yeah. Well, tell us, so we heard little snippets, lived in the Philippines for a little bit, you talked about your mom. Tell us why this show was interesting to you. I'm so happy to have you as a co -host. I'd like to know more about what it means to you to be part of something like this.

Kat Aragon (05:44)
Well, yes, I know you had posted something about this not too long ago and talking or I guess looking for people who identified as a mixed ethnicity background, cultural backgrounds. And this really spoke to me, obviously, like I said, I don't know if I actually said, my mom is Filipina, my dad is Caucasian.

And so I've always grown up in this like dual household, know, it's like fully experiencing my dad's Caucasian, you know, like upbringing and background, as well as fully experiencing my mom's Filipina, you know, side of things. And that's just always been the norm for me. you know, but also seeing how in the same world, my mom could have such prejudices and things, you know, against her when she was a hairstylist at different salons and just like, you know, not really.

getting chosen as the person to do somebody's hair or, know, and I would hear her come back with these grievances, but at the same time, she was always such a positive person that I think it probably maybe affected me and wanting me to have a voice for her more so than she cared to have a voice for herself. So, I definitely wanted to have a space to speak about those kinds of things, but also I've just been such a natural advocate for

Shawna Gann (06:54)
Mmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kat Aragon (07:08)
for everybody. Like it doesn't matter background, skin color, age, you know, who you love, any of this. I remember in high school, like it was like being in a mostly Caucasian school. was

Shawna Gann (07:18)
Yeah.

Kat Aragon (07:24)
we were considered the minorities. It was like the people who didn't have as many people to represent us within the school. Thankfully as my kids have gone through the entire public school system, I mean, it was really nice to just see the diversity. Like knowing like maybe 80 % of the school was not what I called, it is the minority, which is actually the population of the schools that they went to, which was amazing to see that has come that far.

Shawna Gann (07:48)
Yeah.

Kat Aragon (07:51)
You know, I'm also still in these industries where it feels like it inches further forward, like in the beauty industry, but it's still like there's just so many things that you still just want to shake people and be like, look, you guys, you guys have to wake up to being a voice and representation for everyone. So I still get that push and pull. But like I said, from the very beginning, I've just been an advocate for people having a voice and being seen. I don't like people falling through the cracks or feeling

Shawna Gann (08:05)
Yeah.

Kat Aragon (08:20)
they're falling through the cracks or just not being represented. alongside with my mom and seeing how she was kind of treated as a Filipina hairstylist in the beauty industry.

All of that like lends to my passion to just help others stand in their power of like having a voice in their environment.

Shawna Gann (08:43)
Yeah, there's a few things that you've said that I'd love to kind of explore a little bit if that's okay. One of them that stood out to me a lot was you said something like, and forgive me if it's not your exact words, but you talked about your father's identity and your mother's identity, but you said fully this and fully that. You know, when I was growing up, I was often, you know,

Actually, let me back up a little bit. think if there's new listeners, I probably should state this. So the show is about racial ambiguity, but not just racial ambiguity, also ethnicity, like all of these things that have nuance, right? There's nothing, and I say it a little punny, but not really, that there's nothing that's truly Black or White here, or Black and White here. And I'm one of those racially ambiguous people

I'm not biracial, in fact, that's why I don't identify that way. I am multi -ethnic. But the thing is, people have been

racialized as, categorized as, labeled as, or maybe they describe themselves this way as being half something. I'm half this, I'm half that. And so it struck me when you said, am fully this and fully that. I I mean, maybe I'm putting you on the spot, but I'd love for you to like share more about that because so often people say half and half or whatever.

Kat Aragon (10:06)
Well, because it's like you live the same life. mean, you're you're living the life of what my dad knows and his upbringing and his culture and everything and also what my mom knows. And it's like sometimes they they are within the same conversation, you know, sometimes they're in the same other, you know, every other sentence is like two different viewpoints. And so I'm like just back in between both. So and that's what I mean. It's like I'm not getting half the experience, you know, when I when I'm at home and talking to both my parents, I'm getting all of it. And sometimes it's a little overwhelming.

Shawna Gann (10:18)
See?

I'm getting it all!

Kat Aragon (10:37)
I'm getting it all from all sides.  you know, and so I think that's really, you know, what I mean by that. It's like I, you know, and I will say that I do sway like more so to, you know, when I'm older again, kind of being that voice and the heartbeat for those. And it's so weird to say minority because I don't feel that way now, you know what I mean? But it's like growing up, it was always like I felt like the minority and stuff.

Shawna Gann (11:01)
Yeah.

Kat Aragon (11:05)
So it was just like my passions to find there. just feel like I love my dad and I just don't feel like he needs fighting for, you know, in that way. So it's like, so I've always picked up like the boxing gloves for my mom, if anything, you know, and not against my dad, but against, you know, just the world, I guess I would say, you know, yeah.

Shawna Gann (11:14)
Gotcha. Yeah.

Well also you said, you saw things, like you saw it growing up as she was working, you saw the way she would be overlooked. You know, just real quick in terms of words, words can be tricky, everybody uses different terminology. Sometimes it's more common to say like the underserved communities or underrepresented because it's people who

Kat Aragon (11:25)
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

yeah, for sure.

I love,

Shawna Gann (11:46)
Like I'm not gonna go off into my tangent today, but there's a whole thing about majority minority nation, how as the population changes, there are actually more people of color, meaning non -white, than there are, well they're not yet, they're saying, okay, but it's coming. Still the White population is the largest, they're saying by 2050, that will not necessarily be the case. We'll dig into that another time. I'm sorry.

Kat Aragon (11:56)
Yes.

For sure, yeah.

Which is why I was so excited to even talk about this. Like you had mentioned one thing when we first met was, you know, I have so many different things that I'm a part of, again, as an advocate for different cultural backgrounds and ethnicities. And yet, you you asked the simple question of like, okay, well, where are you talking about your experience? And where are you, you know, what platform are you able to dive into?

Shawna Gann (12:39)
Yeah.

Kat Aragon (12:41)
where you can talk about how you do have, again, your mother and father coming together and having the experience from both sides of things. And I was like, I don't, I I think I'm pretty sure I actually teared up and maybe even cried during that point because it just hit me. I was like, wow, we could be a voice for so many people and then forget to actually focus on us. And truth be told,

Shawna Gann (12:50)
Yeah.

Kat Aragon (13:02)
this is only going to grow, you know, and there's only gonna be more need to have a platform where people are actually talking about this because people are gonna have to navigate feelings and, you know, and just wanting to know that they're not by themselves, you know, so.

Shawna Gann (13:16)
man, yes, that's what I hear the most. know, again, this is season five, right? Like, all of this time, all the feedback that I get is, you know, a lot of thank you, thank you for holding this space. People appreciate feeling like, or knowing they're not alone as they listen to other stories. I think that's one of the biggest things. And I think that's why I focus so much on belonging. It's a part of its identity, but the other is belonging

You know, I say this thing like it's it's a strange feeling to fit in everywhere but belong nowhere because our society sets up these boxes for us and it's like well like you I mean it well Yes, But you said this thing, you know about like advocating for others, but where's your voice in this and how what does this mean for you and

Kat Aragon (13:49)
Mm -hmm.

literal walkthrough. Check off.

Shawna Gann (14:11)
And I just think that's important because we can sort of be chameleons in a way and fit in a little bit here and fit in a little bit there. But like, where's your space and how can we have that space for one another?

tell us more.

about the advocacy thing, because this is one of the things that I was like, absolutely, you have had some very specific ways that you've been able to support people who clearly have been underrepresented in the beauty industry, specifically cosmetics. Would you tell a little bit about

Kat Aragon (14:42)
Yes. Sure. So like I said, I've been in the makeup industry, I don't know how long, but it's been 25 years this year. I graduated as an esthetician in 1999 and I kind of got thrown into the makeup side of things. That's not why I started in aesthetics. I actually started in aesthetics to learn more about skin. My skin myself didn't have great skin. So I just wanted to learn more about that, but also I had an opportunity to

managed my mom's when she was opening her own salon and my dad said, you know, like we're opening the salon. So was like, okay, amazing. He said, I just need you to go to school at least for a semester. And it was perfect timing because one, I was not doing well in school. had no idea what I was doing or wanted to do for a living. I was in the space where every three months I was changing my mind as to what I wanted to do. So going to this aesthetics school for like facial skincare for anybody who doesn't know what aesthetics is, because it is that.

That interesting word. going to school for that, it... Aesthetician! So when I went to school for that, it served me in a couple of ways. One, like I said, it helped me get off the path of not knowing what I was going to do and focusing on something for once. But also, I was going through major social anxiety at this time where there was no way, like, if this was that time, I would be talking to you right now. Like, there's... I wouldn't be able to have a conversation without having a panic attack. It was, like, that bad.

Shawna Gann (15:44)
I

Kat Aragon (16:10)
and being in a campus was not helping that. So on top of having ADHD and everything else. I just feel like having that small eight to 10 person class was exactly what I needed. And with my goal being to be able to help people fall asleep in a candlelit room with soft music, like that was like my dream job. I will definitely take you up on that offer.

Shawna Gann (16:16)
Sure.

look, I'm like, that's my dream situation right now.

Kat Aragon (16:37)
So that's how I ended up in the beauty world because of my mom and her opening that salon I ended up loving what I was doing there and eventually got into the makeup side when my mom's like you're the only one who's gone to school recently and we're doing weddings so go like it was just one of those things and I was like my gosh I I don't really know what I'm doing so I really tiptoed and just try to learn as much as I could

Eventually I got enough confidence where

The photography bug hit me because I was doing some photography for my own makeup line. And so that's when I started getting into that side of things. So I had to set up a photo shoot.

I couldn't shut my brain off to this whole other world I didn't know existed as I was in the four walls of the salon.

Shawna Gann (17:11)
Yeah.

Kat Aragon (17:19)
this is how.

Louis comes in, like everybody thinks my husband like and me met on a set and it was some like scandalous love affair, but it was actually not. actually said, exactly. No, actually he, actually he was like, you're not getting paid for this. He's like, how hard can this be? This is like, I just remember his words. How hard can this be? And so.

Shawna Gann (17:29)
like to I need to have another episode? Meet the real cat.

Kat Aragon (17:45)
I decided I wanted to pick up a camera, so I was gonna do my own pictures. I'm like, I'm gonna take this in my own hands. I'm gonna be a photographer and makeup artist. Found out I was pregnant the next day after. This was my second child at the time. I knew I was so morning sick with the first child. So I was like, nevermind, I'm returning this. And Louis was like, let's just bring it to our family trip, see if we like the camera. We'll keep it as a family camera. And I mean, that was it. That was his first camera and probably like 30 cameras later, here we are, you know, but he loved it.

Shawna Gann (18:12)
Okay, for the camera snobs out there, Canon, Nikon.

Kat Aragon (18:14)
Yes. All of it, really.

So right now I'm coming to you from a Fuji Fuji right on. He's got Fuji, but then he's also Sony. So he did Canon for a while. He did so, we have all of them.

yeah. So anyways, that's what got me into all the different things. But then as a freelance makeup artist, you really have to pick up a lot of different jobs. Like you can't just work on clients all the time. I did everything from working at beauty counters, which was very short -lived, gosh, I just couldn't imagine myself being in this situation.

more than one time. what happened was, so what happened was there was an event, it was my very first event on the floor at the department store. I remember it was at Nordstrom's and Tyson's. And this brand had like a star artist come in. I guess they have their like, you know, big celebrity artists that come in and I'm green and new and I don't know what's going on or who this person is, you know. But I'm just excited to be working. I got a week of training and you know, like I said, I've only had experience with my own line and like some other things I've added to my kit.

Shawna Gann (18:55)
Wait, wait, what's the situation? Tell us, tell us.

Kat Aragon (19:23)
And I get my very first person sitting in my chair and she has this beautiful chocolate deep skin tone. And I'm like, okay, I'm so excited. Like, what do we have? I know about our like eyeliners and this and that, but I'm not familiar with the foundation range at all. I feel like this is probably something I should have asked a long time ago, but I was thinking more about the techniques when I was training. So I go up to the counter and I was like, okay, what do you have? Like I need a deeper skin tone, a little bit of a red undertone.

And never gonna forget hearing the words, we don't have her shade. And I was like, so I'm brand new here.

Shawna Gann (20:00)
Wait, okay, and it's a celebrity art.

Kat Aragon (20:04)
No, the celebrity artist was there, but they gave me the new girl, the person who they did not recognize in their line, in her color and in her undertone, and put her in my chair for me to tell her that I don't have anything for you. So that was my one and only experience that I needed to experience in that space. But I remember even going to the celebrity artist and be like, hey, like, what do I use?

And he was like, just put some skincare on her and here's a lip and some whatever. Thankfully, she had amazing skin.

then I had only, I only needed to have one other experience where I was the person who was like, actually, I didn't realize it was a cardinal sin to let somebody leave without buying something.

And I was like, my gosh, like these two things mixed together. Like one, I don't even have what I need to service the client sitting in my chair, but I also like am pressured to have to sell something to somebody else. Like this is not for me. This is like, I'm here to be of value to people.

and to help people, like I can't do this. I mean, I respected the people who can do it. It wasn't me, I could not do it. So it was one of those things where I was like, this isn't cut out for me. Let me go seek more in the world of makeup artistry outside of the department store. But the other thing that I ran into more and more often, unfortunately, was

we would have a lot of situations where makeup artists had to bring their own kits to fashion shows and fashion week, or even if it was a local fashion show. And a lot of times those aren't sponsored because they're on a local level and they're like a lower scale budget. They're not sponsored. So they'll get the models from different agencies. And so many times, I just remember...

Me being the one mostly working on any woman of color that was there because I was pretty much the only one that had the shades of foundation and the colors that would work for their skin tone and I do remember and again, this is me being the newer artist so I'm like I Think that it gave me like the mama I like I would just became mama bear of all these shoots and everything and like I would just pull immediately people that were women of color people that had deeper skin tones people that felt

they looked very worried about what was about to happen when they sat in somebody's chair and they're looking at their lineup and it goes up to lighter than me, you know? And I mean, even senior artists that have been artists for like 30 something years who work with like top iconic people would still be like, I don't have her shade. I'm like, how are we still dealing with this after all of this time? this mind you, this is like now 15, 20 years ago, 15 years ago at this point when I was working in that arena.

Shawna Gann (22:30)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Kat Aragon (22:55)
I've just been somebody who one, wants to make sure that I will always have somebody for anyone who sits in my chair, but also to never skip a beat and making sure somebody knows like, yeah, you're meant to be here. We appreciate that you're here and we're so excited for you to be here and like make them feel like the star that they are, you know?

Shawna Gann (23:15)
I am so glad you said that because that's it, Kat, when I'm talking about the feeling of belonging. you know, like, you're supposed to be there because you're hired to be there or you're going to do this show or whatever. But then even though you're supposed to be there and that you fit there because that's your job, you don't belong because the place isn't designed for you. Nothing's designed for you. And so I love

that you're able to do that for people. I think it is changing as more more lines come out and it's been more recognized. And of course, some things in most recent history, in the last few years, kind of amplified that need, I think, and sort of sped that process up. But we're still working on it, right? But it's so important. There are certain things that really irk me, and it's, again, back to words. This idea of certain skin tones are the default.

And it's like, yo, this is America. How many different people are here, but why do our brains? Did you know the story about band -aids? Like why band -aids were beige? It was meant to blend in with your skin. And so I found this old like 1950s commercial. Of course it's a woman in the kitchen doing dishes. look, you can't see it, know? God. But it's this idea that it was supposed to be like nude or skin tone.

Kat Aragon (24:14)
Yes.

Mm -hmm.

Right.

Shawna Gann (24:37)
But it's like, that is definitely not everybody's skin tone. So if you put a band -aid that color on a person who's not that color, it's going to do the very opposite of what it's supposed to do, which is blend in. It's going to totally stick out. So products like "Browndages" are amazing. Or like the different coloring companies. Crayola's one, but now there's more, where they offer multicultural or multiracial colors.

Kat Aragon (25:02)
Thank goodness.

Shawna Gann (25:05)
But just the word nude, I won't name the makeup line, but there's a line, still today I could go into like a drug store, they're kind of a drug store brand, and they have primers, there's like a White primer, and there's one called nude. And I'm like, dude, somebody, one person's nude is way different than another person's nude, so to speak, or like pantyhose, know? Nude. So it's that whole default.

Kat Aragon (25:15)
Mm -hmm.

my gosh.

Shawna Gann (25:34)
Like, who was this built for?

Kat Aragon (25:35)
And how long did it take to get pantyhose to change over from like either had like these, I was gonna say pasty felt, but I'm not gonna say that. They're really, really light colors all the way to like you just have Black sheer pantyhose. And I was like, okay, know, so I mean, I do remember suntan, suntan was a favorite.

Shawna Gann (25:38)
Ha ha!

I know, I knew what you were thinking. I knew exactly what you

That's it. Yeah. Well, that came out, but it's like orange. And then we all have different undertones. So it's like, who are you fooling? You you got your whole little thing and then your legs are orange. That's not working.

Kat Aragon (26:02)
It's gorgeous.

Hi.

Well, and that's the problem is that I think we're, you you would ask about my involvement and what I do with like in terms of the brand that I work with, we have a dedication and this was before this became the popular thing to do, right? It's like, we just have a dedication for always making sure that we have a makeup line that represents all skin tones. And when I say all skin tones, mean like real skin tones, like skin tones with actual undertones that

that mimic humans

my goodness, I've been seeing things where they're just gonna put out different shades to say we have the darkest shade in our line, but there's literally no undertone. They added a White drop of pigment to Black, and they're like, and we have the deepest shade, which matches nobody in this world.

Shawna Gann (26:54)
I might actually put a thing in the show notes on this, because I saw something where someone was like, are you even kidding?

Kat Aragon (27:00)
But you know, we have 34 shades in the line that I've been working with for the last 10 years, which is a pro makeup line that went into retail. So it's something I've already been using in my brand. Like remember I said, I had my own makeup line. So it was really great for people in person.

But what I found when I was going into the photography world was that not all makeup works great under lighting and photography you know, so

That was really important to me.

So I mixed things up and I had everything that I needed in terms of like me being able to mix it, but it wasn't readily available to customers. when that was brought to the company's attention.

that what it was like an immediate, yes, what else do you need? And I think that was the most important thing. It's like, I don't believe there's any company out there that is perfect. What is perfect is a company that will listen and listen to the customers, listen to if it's a sales company to the field and do something and implement something. So like as long as I've been seeing that for 10 years, I'm just always expanding, always implementing, always like, and just hearing everybody's collective voice.

Shawna Gann (27:50)
yeah.

Kat Aragon (28:05)
Like that's when I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm standing behind the right place.

then we're always still expanding. So that's the line that I'm really proud of.

It was like, no, it didn't always start like this, but they realized that it made sense to expand and they used their money to expand it. Right.

it was one of those things where the On the Rise initiative started and it was just this conversation then when everything happened with Black Lives Matter and George Floyd and all those conversations. We had a lot of hurt people in our sales field that were like, we can't go tone deaf on everything that's happening.

And while all these companies were making these claims about just standing with women of color with Black women, it was one of these things where we're like, yes, of course we're gonna do that too. This makes sense because we've already been in this conversation.

And interestingly enough, of course, some people also aren't gonna like that and feel like you're too involved now and you know, and

political, you know, like things and became political and left and that's okay. You know, that's okay. Like it's fine, but that's where they decided that they needed to focus. Now the difference is years later, we are still doing that.

It was during COVID when all this came out. And I'm

how are we gonna have a panda foundation? People are gonna be like, yes, that's my shade, but there's no representation on an actual person. So I asked them how possible is it to get a photo shoot together, nobody's even gathering together, and they were like, it's not possible, especially when we have 34 shades. And I was like, we got you. So I put out a call.

and the beautiful thing about this is my community, we all came together and it was like, if I didn't have somebody to fill this color foundation, like somebody knew somebody, they were putting it in all of the different groups everywhere. And within two weeks of shooting, we had all 34 shades taken care of within just the people of my neighborhood and this community. And that's what I mean by real people who fit real colors.

Shawna Gann (29:57)
I love it.

think that's such a fantastic thing that you did and also like way to build community too and show like these are just the people who are around you who represent all of these different beautiful colors. Like why not? That's so cool.

Kat Aragon (30:21)
Right, and you know what I really loved about it too, and bringing it back to like kind of our topic on what we're speaking of here is, you know, of course it goes back to like advocacy and being seen, everybody being seen and you know, and everybody having a shade that represents them or colors that we're gonna work with their skin tone.

I just love that we have that space, you know, to be able to be an advocate.

Shawna Gann (30:42)
Well, there's a thing that you said a little while ago about, you said this thing about, know, during mostly 2020, 2021, there were so many posts and the websites changed. I even know of a company who like, somebody pointed out on a social media site that their leadership was all, they were like, we stand with the Black community. And they're like, really? Cause have you looked at your leadership page? And I was like,

Kat Aragon (31:11)
Right. Yes. There were a of Instagram accounts to this day. still like, you know, I remember following them because they were doing the call -outs, you know, of like different companies that were saying, like, okay, how much percentage here?

Shawna Gann (31:11)
Yes, they did get called out. And then guess what happened?

Well, this company, after someone pointed out to them, they mixed up all the people on their website. So you couldn't tell who was leaders and who wasn't. So they just looked like this wonderfully diverse, but they didn't say like, well, here's who's in the hierarchy at our place, right? Like we call that the reverse ombre effect. Anyway, I won't go into that today.

Kat Aragon (31:39)
my goodness.

I can't wait to learn all these things about you.

Shawna Gann (31:55)
Well, that's not an official term. That's just something. But no.

Kat Aragon (31:57)
I don't know, I wanna know it all.

Because I just go really long in describing something where you could describe it in like three words. I'm like, yeah, I need to learn that term.

Shawna Gann (32:08)
It's this thing. Some of them are just Shawna -isms, let's just, to be fair. But, you know, when you talked about the solidarity or something came to mind when you said, you know, these folks were saying they're going to stand with the Black community. And I was thinking about standing. Standing is pretty like nothing is happening when you're standing. There's no movement, right? How about don't just stand with me. Let's be in motion. Let's act.

Kat Aragon (32:12)
I love it.

Shawna Gann (32:37)
And I just recently wrote an article about allyship. I was talking with another friend of mine And one of the things that kind of got to her was this idea that people claim to be allies. They say that they're an ally, but

They're standing. Great. Thank you for standing. Can you move too? Like, how about let's do things? And I thought, well, I think there are tiers to this. I think of it like a continuum. And I just published, I'll put it in the show notes, I made a framework. I call it the 5S framework where there's levels because not everybody is ready to move.

Kat Aragon (32:55)
Mm -hmm.

Shawna Gann (33:13)
So there's a sympathizer, You know what I think, I say it's like this. Whenever you see one of those commercials for ASPCA or the World Wildlife Foundation.

Kat Aragon (33:24)
Yes.

Shawna Gann (33:25)
The WWF. So like when one of those commercials comes on or like Shriners or St. Jude, yeah, people are like, dang, and it pulls on your heartstrings, but then the commercial changes or you turn off your TV or you do something else and then it's out of sight, out of mind, right? So I think of that as like the sympathizer. And then there's a supporter who wants to learn more. So they're listening, they're not actually doing yet, but they are more engaged. And then there's a sponsor, the person who's like,

Kat Aragon (33:30)
You're like, aww.

Right.

Shawna Gann (33:54)
you know, let me connect you, let me network you. I get it. They might start to like be the person who says to somebody in a conversation like, did you know about this thing? And then moving up from there would be the spokesperson who's now an educator. So not only are they involved, but they're teaching other people. And then the top of this tier, I listed as the strategist. They're the activists. They are leading charges on a big scale. And there's like a little graph I drew that was like, look, the higher you go up on this tier,

It's like the more risk there is, because you're sticking your neck out further, but also the more impact you have.

Kat Aragon (34:30)
I love that. We didn't even mean to do that, you're spot on, yeah.

Shawna Gann (34:31)
My framework works?

Kat Aragon (34:35)
On the rise, people, on the rise. Yay, we did it right.

Shawna Gann (34:37)
Yeah.

No, I love it. my gosh. Well Kat, I can tell this is gonna... Well, I already said it and I mean it sincerely. This is gonna be an amazing season. I love having a fresh perspective, you know, people don't want to just hear me like give my Shawna -isms and whatever. It's nice to have people who can see what it's like and have experience what it's like in different spaces, different places with different people. So thank you for...

you know, being part of this journey with me and you know, we're gonna be together with Rachel pretty soon too, our other co -host, So this is so amazing. Is there anything that you hope for, that you're looking for out of this season?

Kat Aragon (35:15)
Yeah.

I just really, like I said, we grow up and we are in our silos and we try to let as many people in as possible so we can learn more. But this just gives me a chance to learn even more from different people.

I only know what I know, right? And so I'm always just a sponge.

I wanna hear from other people, so.

Shawna Gann (35:45)
Yeah. No, that's really fantastic.

I so appreciate that. That's something that you're looking forward to. In terms of all of your wonderfulness, do you want to shout out anything or anyone in particular or have folks reach out to you or follow you in some way? That's up to

Kat Aragon (36:04)
You can follow me on Instagram @KatAragon.

But you can get in touch with me and follow me and all the, I'm just an open book on at Kat Aragon on Instagram.

Shawna Gann (36:15)
Awesome. Yay, this is going to be such a good season. Thank you so much, Kat. Hey, y 'all, we are going to be back for more. This is literally just the beginning. So if you haven't already, do be sure to subscribe, follow and share it with somebody. say y 'all, you got to check out the show.

Kat Aragon (36:19)
I'm excited!

Shawna Gann (36:35)
All right, y 'all, I guess we're gonna wrap. Kat, this is gonna be amazing. Thank you and.

We're gonna talk soon. All right, take

Kat Aragon (36:42)
Thank you.