Cafecito, Culture, and Connection: The Power of Sisterhood in DEI Spaces

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Shawna, Rachel, and Kat introduce Hady Mendez, a DEI expert, who shares her journey and insights on employee resource groups, cultural wisdom, and the challenges of navigating racial identity. The discussion highlights the need for allyship, the evolving understanding of racial categories, and the significance of joy and community support in personal and professional growth.

Takeaways

• Mixed race identity is complex and varies greatly among individuals.
• Self-advocacy is crucial for underrepresented groups in the workplace.
• Cultural idioms can provide valuable life lessons and wisdom.
• The importance of employee resource groups in fostering community and support.
• Allyship is essential for creating inclusive environments.
• Racial categories in forms often fail to capture the diversity of identities.
• Colorism exists within the Latino community and affects perceptions of privilege.
• Personal narratives and experiences shape our understanding of identity.
• Joy and positivity can be powerful tools for personal growth.
• Community connections can provide validation and support in shared experiences.

Stuff to check out from mentions in the episode:

• Planning for the 2030 Census is Underway
• Coming to Our Census: Are the Race and Ethnicity Questions Needed?
• How the Census Bureau Stood Up to Donald Trump’s Meddling
• Why the 2030 census will likely show a drop in 'white' Americans
• Who The Census Misses
• Chapter 1: Race and Multira

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Transcript

Shawna Gann (00:00)
Well, I am so glad to see both of you today and those of, I mean, people will watch this, so they'll see you too, but also that you're here for this conversation. Kat, Rachel, how you doing? What's up?

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (00:12)
Who has been a time,

Shawna Gann (00:15)
She leads with it's been a time. That's not heavy. You good. Let me send you my square and just kidding

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (00:20)
Y'all are about to be my therapy on today. Does anybody want to copay? Like.

Kat Aragon (00:28)
you

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (00:31)
I am doing well despite moving, those of us who have moved, it is terrible, horrible. And then you add the actual terrible, horrible things like the movers crew didn't show up, so it was a one man show, and the tasker I hired didn't show up, so a two hour job took two days. So your girl is tired.

Shawna Gann (00:47)
no. I'm sorry. Well, I do hope you get some good rest and recovery. I have moved lots of times and I understand the frustration, but I haven't had that. I have had my goods, like after they packed them up. It's been taken for ransom before. That's fun. I'll tell you that story another day. Yep. we were without our things for like three months.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (00:51)
Yeah, thanks.

No, not a kidnapping of the things.

be for real. The way I felt about it, y'all could just put it in trash at this point, so.

Shawna Gann (01:15)
And then we finally got right in that crazy. So.

Yeah, well, I'm glad at least it's over and I hope that you get good rest and you can settle it nicely and I have to worry about that.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (01:29)
Yeah, thanks for that. Kat, how are you doing?

Kat Aragon (01:32)
Good, but you know it's so funny they say it's been a time, because I feel like that's just been the kind of week, like it's like everybody I talk to there's like something unexpected or whatever you know happening and so I think we're all going through it like in some sort of way you know so it's actually why I get super excited for pockets like this where we can just connect and talk to others and like kind of just like just get away from the world for a moment and like get into somebody else's world for a moment you know so

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (01:58)
Mm-hmm.

Kat Aragon (01:58)
We can take that energy on too because it gets rough around us. We just gotta remember where to invest our time to take some time away to invest in growth and learning. So I'm glad to see you guys.

Shawna Gann (01:58)
No doubt.

Yeah. Yeah, likewise. I have been OK, but busy, so busy.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (02:10)
For sure

Kat Aragon (02:14)
Mm.

Shawna Gann (02:15)
Y'all, my book is coming along. I'm so excited. It's like exciting, but I'm nervous at the same time. And I continued to do some research and surveys and things. And one very clear theme that comes through every time is for folks who identify as being mixed race,

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (02:18)
Hey!

Kat Aragon (02:18)
Bye.

Shawna Gann (02:35)
or having mixed racial ancestry in any way that they identify is there is no clear way to say this is what it's like for mixed people. Like, because there's so many different ways to be mixed and then you throw culture on top of it, you throw personal history on top of it. And you know, when I watch the news and things, especially now at the time of this recording anyway, we are pretty close to the election.

Kat Aragon (02:46)
Mm-hmm.

Shawna Gann (03:05)
And so everything's about polls. And it's the way they report these polls is who is saying what? And everybody gets sort of lumped together. And you're like, what does that even mean? First of all, don't even talk about, "People with two or more races say...", because that gets left out all the time. And then it's like, what does "suburban women" mean? what does the "Latina community" mean? Because even whenever you go to fill out something, it's separated. It's like,

"Are you Hispanic or not?" And then "what's your race?" So it's such a weird way of collecting information to talk about people's sentiments when there's no true definition. And even within these groups, it's so completely different. That's the thing that blows me away looking at this research that I'm getting. Mixed race is so many things. But I'm just so excited to be getting this close. And each and every time, I'll be telling you little bit more.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (03:38)
Mm-hmm.

Kat Aragon (03:46)
Right.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (03:56)
Hmm.

Shawna Gann (04:04)
will be announcing soon. I know, I'm really excited. I can't wait. Well, kind of along this lines, I have met a person recently. We had such a great conversation. I was like, yes, you're absolutely a fantastic guest for this show.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (04:05)
So exciting.

Kat Aragon (04:07)
That's so exciting. That's really exciting.

Shawna Gann (04:24)
I really can't wait for you to meet her name is Hady Mendez and she is a New York based Amazon best-selling author. Y'all she's impressive. I'm all like I'm excited but she's like "I already did that Shawna." She's a Latino speaker. She's an ERG coach. She's the founder and CEO of Boldly Speaking LLC and what she does is she empowers underrepresented employees to self-advocate, to self-promote and rise to leadership roles within employee resource groups and other parts of their organizations.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (04:34)
Let's go.

Shawna Gann (04:54)
She has 25 years of experience and she's led equality initiatives in major tech firms. She's advised, she's championed causes for incarcerated women. She's amazing. Like she's been featured in Business Insider and

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (05:04)
Wow.

Shawna Gann (05:08)
she's like the 2022 honoree and LinkedIn top coaching and mentoring voice. I am so happy to welcome you Hady. Thank you so much for joining us.

Kat Aragon (05:17)
welcome.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (05:17)
Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here with the ladies.

Shawna Gann (05:21)
Yes, yes, we are happy to have you. Yeah, you are a pretty fascinating human being. You've gotten to do lots of things. Your interest in supporting women and helping folks is just fantastic. But before we dig into what you do just love to hear about you, the person, when you're not out working and doing these other things that we just introduced about you.

What do you enjoy? Who are you outside of work?

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (05:52)
I would say like I'm a Latina and I identify as a Latina and a woman of color. So like that's my experience, my lived experience. That's how I walk through the world and that's the lens that I see the world. I'm really into health and wellness. So.

About two years ago, I lost like 30, 40 pounds and I'm on a gluten-free, plant-based, refined, sugar-free diet, which I mostly stick to. And so I'm always looking for like gluten-free vegan goodies. And I eat a snack with coffee every day, mid-morning.

And so I'm always looking for something to have with my coffee. So I'm like a junkie. I'm a snack, "cafecito" snack junkie. But it's like joy, joy in a cup and joy in my bowl and just something that makes me happy. And it's not a lot, like usually I like half. Like today I had half a cookie and I'm like, I'm so happy with half a Half a cookie.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (06:47)
Have a cookie?

Shawna Gann (06:48)
Okay

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (06:49)
Yes, it was half, I think it was like an oatmeal raisin. I don't even know what it was, because I usually buy stuff and I freeze it. And then I'm like, surprise, I don't know what I'm eating. I'm just eating something from my fridge that I bought.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (06:57)
Whoo, that's self control.

Kat Aragon (07:00)
I'm like so happy with a cup of coffee and a piece of bread. Like my husband just like laughs. He's like, my grandma used to do that. I'm like, no, I grew up like that. Like give him a little bread and right. He's like, you don't want to toast that. I'm like, no, no, no. It's about the softness of the bread. Sometimes I'll press the bread together. Like it's just.

Shawna Gann (07:01)
Okay.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (07:05)
Don't sleep on bread. You're right.

Shawna Gann (07:07)
Rachel's face!

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (07:14)
This is why I'm chunky but funky y'all.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (07:19)
Well, today there's a place, I just moved to, so I moved to Beacon, New York and there's a gluten-free like vegan spot here and they made challah bread for the Jewish holidays. And today I was like, know, yeah, so I went to buy some and I'm like, I noticed they didn't have that and they're like, no, they're hot from the oven. you, know, how many do you need? I was like, I'll just take one, but it was hot. So that's what I had too today. I had some of that as well.

Shawna Gann (07:32)
yeah, yeah, it's getting on the time.

Kat Aragon (07:40)
That was coffee. Yes. I get it. I get it.

Shawna Gann (07:48)
You taught me a new word, cafecito. Can I have my little "cafecito"? I won't be having to have a cookie though. Here's me, like I go to the store and I'm like, okay, let me look at the little calories label, okay, okay. I'll have a quarter of it that I'm in my car like, like nobody's with me, but I'm feeling like ashamed, guilty, like eating my little cookie, get home and there's a quarter of it left. And I'm like, well, you know, I tried.

Kat Aragon (07:50)
the video.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (07:50)
Yeah

Absolutely right.

Ha ha ha!

Don't feel guilty. I'm gonna eat me a whole crumble cookie, all 1200 calories of it, eat immediately. So shout out to y'all for your discipline.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (08:22)
So I was about to say the trick to just having the half or having the one or having whatever you wanna have, like no shade on anybody who wants to have the whole box or the whole bag, but it's really to just put it on your plate and like put the rest of it away. That's how I do it. So it's like, I'll be like, I want one and I put it on a plate and then I just put the box away.

Shawna Gann (08:43)
But Hady, that means that I have to get home to my plate. That's where I think the difficulty lies. Yeah.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (08:47)
Hahaha!

Kat Aragon (08:49)
throw it under the feet.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (08:51)
How do might have to be my nutrition coach y'all?

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (08:53)
Yeah.

Shawna Gann (08:54)
I'm like, yeah, I will try that. But no, that's really awesome.

And I will be saying "cafecito" from now on, my little "cafecito". I love that. Well, so, okay, before we started, y'all, we talked a little bit and Hady asked, anybody speak Spanish? And I was kind of shy because it always embarrassed me. So Spanish was my minor in university. But when I moved, I moved to Italy and I did not speak Italian, but I used Spanish to get around until I eventually learned Italian. And now I'm gonna be real like,

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (09:06)
You said you pronounce it too.

Shawna Gann (09:32)
Most of the time I don't know if the words I'm using are Italian or Spanish words people do seem to know what I'm saying but it's just you know, I'm like I I can see like the little bit of the so I'm like, yeah I must have used the wrong one, but I did start recently learning again. So I'm studying so I can refresh but yeah

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (09:39)
Yes.

That is a low key travel tip. Spanish gets me around Italy, Portugal, Brazil, and then all the Spanish speaking countries. So it's actually quite a good... Yeah, France, like harder like...

Shawna Gann (10:05)
I was going to say France too.

because

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (10:10)
The sound doesn't sound, but if you look at the word, you're like, I think I know where that's coming from. So I have an idea, but sound wise, it doesn't quite sound like Spanish, but also helped if I looked at a word. So yeah, it helps a lot more than you think. And I agree with you that you don't like.

Shawna Gann (10:13)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kat Aragon (10:24)
No, sure.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (10:28)
straight up, they call it Portuñol when you speak Portuguese and Spanish together. So it's called, there is a term for it, it's like Spanglish. So Portuñol is a term and it is acceptable that there's so many people that do that, that it's like quite, it's understood, like it's like a third language. But I talk it all the time. I have used it all the time and everybody understands. And it's like you said, I'm like, I don't even know, I just made up a word. I don't even know if that's what that is, but you understood.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (10:32)
Hmm.

Shawna Gann (10:33)
yeah.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (10:35)
Yeah, yeah,

Shawna Gann (10:52)
Yeah. That's how it goes. Spitalian just sounds like an American trying to speak other languages, but you know, I give it a go. I give it a go.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (10:54)
You

It does. It does.

Kat Aragon (11:01)
My mom speaks Tagalog from the Philippines and they have a lot of similar words too. mean, sounds nothing alike, but a lot of the words are like very similar in the way they're written or even some are exact, you know, so she can get by.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (11:14)
That's interesting. I had to use my little high school Spanish. I went to Cuba during my when I did my master's degree and I had to bring back that high school Spanish from 10, 15 years at that time ago. I made it do what it do, though.

Shawna Gann (11:14)
Well, the Spanish were busy back in the day.

Yeah, and usually once you get in place, things start to kind of click, which is why I started taking lessons again. So next time, Hady, next time, I'll...

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (11:32)
Mm.

Shawna Gann (11:39)
I'll be better and we can have a, I was gonna look at me trying to be so ambitious. We can have a whole conversation. We can try. So.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (11:48)
Yeah, don't even know if I could have a whole conversation in Spanish myself. Spanglish is really where it's at, so we could land there.

Shawna Gann (11:54)
There you go. Yeah. Well, actually, maybe this is a good place to transition. Tell us a little bit about the work that you do and how you work with the Latino community and those things that are important to you in this way.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (12:09)
Yeah, so I'll back up just a little bit to say that my last corporate role was head of equality at a tech company. And so in that role, I was the advisor to all of the employee resource groups, which was like, that was like a big part of my job. And then just trying to align our DEI goals to the business goals was the other.

piece and you know all of that was around like recruiting, retention, representation of underrepresented populations. So Black, brown, LGBTQ plus, et cetera. And so that was my last corporate role and I ended up getting laid off with like the rest of the universe last year. And

Shawna Gann (12:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm, DEI world.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (12:50)
Yeah, it happens. so then I said, well, then I'm just going to try and do this for a little while on my own. I have been wanting to do that.

I'm closer to retirement than I look. And I'm like, you know, I'll start now. Then I can like transition it into something that I do later when I'm like ready for retirement. And so I've been building the plane and flying the plane all at once, which I will say has been very, very, very, very challenging. I think entrepreneurs find out a lot about themselves and their resilience and their character and their strength and their courage, because you got to find

Shawna Gann (13:20)
Thank

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (13:24)
You gotta find it where it's not even there and you just gotta like get up and do it again. And it's been a challenging market. DEI is very much in the, know, cross hairs of a lot of people and organizations. And a lot of organizations have also cut back their investment in DEI.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (13:28)
Mm.

Shawna Gann (13:29)
Agreed.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (13:45)
And there's like a lot of competition. A lot of people got laid off and a lot of people like, yo, that's what I'm going to do too. So it's been extremely hard. I like speaking about self advocacy and self promotion. Those are, that's the topic or the topics that I enjoy speaking about the most. So it's about like building your brand and advocating for yourself, owning your narrative and a lot of

underrepresented people don't do this enough.

I also, I'm an ERG coach, so employee resource groups are my thing. I love employee resource groups. I've been involved for over 20 years.

And so part of the work that I do is to try to get organizations to really see the leaders are right there. These are these are people that really should be in your pipeline. Why aren't they in your pipeline? They're right there. They have the skill set. They're

doing employee engagement, they're demonstrating their organizational leadership, their advocacy, they're like advisors, they've been advisors to the organization. They're big fans typically of the organization. Usually this work is done for free and out of the kindness of your heart and you do it because you either really care about the community or you really care about seeing the.

Shawna Gann (14:46)
Yeah.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (14:50)
the organization have more representation. And so you're very invested when you're an ERG leader. And that's a missed opportunity for a lot of organizations. And then the third thing is I like writing about it. So we were talking about your book. congratulations. I'm so excited for you. I have been part of a, I've been.

Shawna Gann (15:05)
Thank you.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (15:07)
part of two multi-author book projects. did one when I was like a young, I think I was in high school, like was like 14 years old. And it was a Spanglish book. It was a book in English and Spanish. That was like the beginning of my author journey.

Shawna Gann (15:18)
fun. Yeah.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (15:21)
And then earlier this year, I was part of another project. it was about 20 of us that got together and put this book together called Awareness Put Me On. And I just talk about my experience in corporate America as a Latina woman and a woman of color and kind of like a moment that really clicked for me. And I was like, I need to.

I need to do everything different. need to relook at my belief system. I need to relook at how I walk through this world. I need to own my narrative. I need to reach out to the next generation and really share what I've learned because the way I was operating was not leading to success for me.

Shawna Gann (15:40)
you

Yeah.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (15:58)
But I am going to do a solo book. So I'm going to be right behind you. I'll tell you what the book is about. So this is, I'm going to test your Spanish. I hope you don't mind. Do know Un dicho o un refrán?

Kat Aragon (16:11)
you got me.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (16:11)
It's not like that comment, so it's more advanced. Yeah, who said that? Yes, that's what it is. Yeah, it's a saying. It's a saying. Like it's like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. so in the Latino cultures, like every other word out of a mother or grandmother's mouth is like, I'm gonna tell you.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (16:14)
Is it like a saying?

Shawna Gann (16:18)
What is it you said?

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (16:19)
like a saying.

Shawna Gann (16:33)
an idiom of some kind.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (16:34)
you

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (16:34)
Yeah, I'm going to tell you how it is. It's like this wisdom is passed by, is passed down through these idioms, through these dichos, through these refranes. So I want to write a book about them and talk about the lessons I learned from the refranes and the dichos that my mother taught me.

Shawna Gann (16:39)
Yeah.

Kat Aragon (16:44)
Love that.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (16:45)
fun.

Shawna Gann (16:45)
Okay.

Kat Aragon (16:50)
Love it.

Shawna Gann (16:51)
That's beautiful and fun.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (16:52)
Mm-hmm.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (16:53)
Well, very fun. And that was one of the things that I've been talking to publishers. And I'm like, I just want you all to know that this book is going to be about joy. There's enough to be sad about in this world. I'm done talking about all the sad stuff that has happened to me. I want to really focus on like.

this wisdom that I got and that we get, especially from unexpected sources. Like it's like, well, my mother didn't even graduate from high school or my dad, my grandmother doesn't even know how to write or like, you know, all these things, like I think a lot of first-gen people have these experiences where it's like, you...

You're like, they didn't have education. They didn't have a job in corporate America. They didn't have these things. And it's like, but they were smart and they were wise and we need, and there's lessons that we can learn from them. And I, that's what I want to like elevate and bring to the surface. The other thing I will tell you that I do, is that I host a program on LinkedIn. And so it's a LinkedIn live program called Latinas Front and Center. And I interview Latinas that are like what we call jefas or like trailblazers.

Like these women that are just like they're paving the way and creating pathways for future generations So that's been really exciting.

I'm living my purpose and that's why like my skin is shining, it glows.

Shawna Gann (18:10)
Okay, I need to do a little bit more living. I gotta get some of that. Get some of that.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (18:16)
Or drink your water and mind your business. That can also help too.

Shawna Gann (18:26)
I don't know if that was at me or if that was just general advice, but either way, either way, I'll take it. man.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (18:31)
No shade, friend.

Shawna Gann (18:38)
But, you know, given all this great stuff that you've been doing, Hady, I'm wondering what lessons have come out of it? Like, what have you learned about your community doing all this stuff?

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (18:49)
Well, one of the things that I like to do, and I don't think I'm great at it yet, but one of the things that I've been trying to do is make sure that I include, that I have a pretty big tent in terms of the Latinas that I'm bringing into the conversation and that I'm spotlighting.

And I'm trying to bring in more of those younger ones too, because I'm like, there's wisdom there too. There's wisdom everywhere. So I don't want to discount or exclude anyone. And I feel like that's, you know, I walk around, that's my, that's what I preach, right? Inclusion. So I got to practice what I preach. So I feel like,

I have to be very intentional.

I'm finding ways to even bring more people into the conversation. I don't know, I just think like, it's all good. It's like a lot of...

Shawna Gann (19:29)
Yes.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (19:33)
positivity, love. And I feel like that's what I want to be about because how we started this conversation is what I forgot what you said. It's been a week. It's been a time. I wonder what. Yeah, and it has been and it will continue to be. we have to like, think we have to create or generate our own joy and peace and goodness.

Shawna Gann (19:43)
It's been a week. It's been a time, yeah.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (19:44)
It's been a time.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (20:00)
to put into the world.

There's a lot of opportunity there for allyship, because I still think the vast majority of the people that are supporting me or that are really excited about this are other Latinas. And I'm like, there's opportunity there to cultivate some allyship and some interests and some partnerships and collaborations with other people, which is why I'm going to start bringing in other people, because I feel like there is an opportunity there and I want to tap it.

Shawna Gann (20:25)
Yeah. Yeah, you know, I am a consumer of the TikTok. I love TikTok. I'm so bad. But I saw this video. This woman was basically talking about a work experience and she was describing, do you know that crabs in a pot thing, right? Like as people climb, instead of lifting up, they kind of try to pull them down instead.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (20:44)
Yep. Yes.

Shawna Gann (20:52)
it's such a confusing phenomenon to me because those of us who are parts of marginalized communities and even have intersectional identities that are marginalized, like to be able to have an opportunity and to have someone.

give you a platform that you might not have had, you know, as a sponsor, as an ally, if, like, Hady, like you said, you like to shine the light on people, to have this opportunity to shine the light on people, but folks are so worried, that scarcity idea, right? Yeah, it's definitely hard out here. It is not easy. But it's so confusing when, within your own community, sometimes you experience that, and it's like, how can we build each other up?

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (21:40)
It does happen. It's like you read my mind. I posted something. I'm not a TikToker, but I like threads. And the other day I wrote something on thread. Yeah, I wrote, it be your own friends, but like, yeah, sometimes it be your own community. It is, it does happen. I've seen it.

Shawna Gann (21:48)
she and the threads, okay.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (21:59)
I don't engage. So it's like, OK, sometimes I need to unconnect or unfriend or just separate myself from people that are not aligned with how I want to be. And my advice, really, is to model the behavior. So not only will I go out of my way not to associate with people that don't have good intentions in the work that they're doing, but then I'm

trying to live and model the behavior that I think is that that I feel is the right behavior. And I'm trying to be very deliberate, intentional about how I walk through the world and my purpose. And I feel like my purpose is very clear.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (22:40)
Mm-hmm.

Shawna Gann (22:40)
Yeah.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (22:43)
My purpose is to help lift and shine a light on other people. You can see that through the work that I do.

I, when, even when, what you don't see, I'm having conversations with lots of young and up and coming and people who are just looking for advice, someone to talk to, making sure that they're doing things right, curious about like, how'd you do that? Or what do you recommend? How do, how should I do this? I've taken calls from people, some people from Africa, India, like.

this lady from like Eastern Europe that was like, should I quit my job? They haven't like promoted me in nine years. I'm like, yeah, girl, you need to quit that job. Go, go find another job.

Shawna Gann (23:23)
I want to ask all of you this. I'm just curious. And this is mostly my curious mind, because you'll have to forgive me. I'm total data head right now, as I've been combing through the results of these surveys and so on. Another thing that I have seen, and again, this is for any of you. I'm just curious what you think, is

A question I ask is, what challenges do you believe that people who are multiracial or mixed race face? What are those challenges? And there's a variety of answers, very interesting. And some of the participants are themselves identifying as being multiracial. But I see not only from people who are White identifying, but a lot of Black identifying people say they don't have any problems. And matter of fact, we shouldn't be talking about them because of the privilege.

And it just made me think about two things. One, I think there's a misunderstanding about what it is to be mixed-race or have mixed-racial ancestry. Most people, I think.

that I've spoken with assume that when you say mixed race, they think Black, White, period. But that's not always it. And then there are a lot of people who are multiracial who They don't look like they have White ancestry or they don't look like what I'm doing, air quotes, what a mixed person looks like. And so I think there's a lot of assumed privilege.

Obviously, I'm in the DEI space as well, and I'm here to advocate for all marginalized people, but my work is usually around race-based issues. And I come from a Black community. that's the lens that I'm looking through. So I get it when these results come in, and these are the responses. But I just feel like, why discount an entire group of people?

because they seem less oppressed or because there is some perceived or assumed privilege. And especially given that a lot of times these challenges are so unique because then it's really getting down to identity. What do you guys think about those kind of responses?

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (25:25)
speak from being a biracial Black person so my dad's White my mom is Black a lot of that goes back to the history for you know Black and White mixed people of enslavement right and so there was a hierarchy that was created of who got to be placed where based on skin color and proximity to whiteness so who got to be in the house who was in the fields and that that

that psychological disconnect, right? Of like, well, we're not in the house, so we don't know what that's like. But that had its own sense of like horrors, right? Of being like a concubine and all these different things. That there was this disconnect between like, well, you have it easier because you're light skinned and how that.

transitioned into our communities even today. So we can see that in like music videos and movies and like how celebrities are asked to lighten their skin, precisely colorism, right? And so then it creates this divide within the community saying like, we are all on the same page. Well, you're not because you have this proximity to whiteness. So I am kind of racially ambiguous presenting. Some folks think I'm White. Some people have said that I look Puerto Rican.

Shawna Gann (26:14)
Colorism.

Rachel Sadler (she/her) (26:34)
So and then we're a position we've talked about this before with like dating for example, right? The fetishization of light-skinned women and so if I'm up here like I'm really just like, you

a Black girl, right? And they're like, you look so exotic. And when I'm not Puerto Rican or Colombian, then they're like disappointed because there has been this, you know, fetishization of these exotic, these folks that we've exotified, right? I don't even know if that's a word. And so there's an intentionality behind that and why that's done systemically and structurally. There's an intentionality behind uplifting certain folks with their proximity to whiteness as we exist within White supremacy culture and intentional ways of

keeping that and going back to like your crab and the pot syndrome, like if we are fighting amongst ourselves, we can't fight these larger systems. So if we can create this infighting in these groups and have them at each other's throats, then they're not gonna be bothered by the overarching system that is like oppressing us all. And there's realities in that. There's a reality that I walk through the world differently than darker skinned women, right? I have privilege that darker skinned women don't have, and I have to exercise allyship and recognize that yes, I am a woman of color and have marginalized identities and.

it is different than say like my mother or friends of mine who have darker skin. And I think sometimes I feel like mixed biracial folks try to say they either don't have that or try to make it seem like it's not a reality. And that can be very off putting to folks who are like, no, when I come in this place, like they see a Black woman and I am treated like that. Whereas people suss you out first.

before they start whatever sort of raggedy treatment they have associated with marginalized identities.

Shawna Gann (28:16)
Yeah. No, thank you for that. And just to clarify, this is a question that I posed to everybody, but there wasn't anyone that said, there wasn't a thing that said like, well, how did you say it? Just now, I don't have privilege or anything like that. It wasn't as a response to that sort of argument. It was just a question of what challenges do you believe folks in this community face? And the reason I think that's just an interesting question to ask is because it does get

at some of those assumptions people make. I think that happens in so many different communities. talking to you sort of made me think about this data that came in. So that's why I asked.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (28:59)
Yeah, so the conversation for me was bringing up

something that recently changed for me. for a really long time, and I don't remember quite frankly where it started, I want to say it was my parents, but I'm not sure, but I'm thinking it was either like my parents or like my older sisters. For a very long time, I checked off Hispanic or Latino, I think that's how it's phrased, and I checked off White. And I didn't know.

And I didn't have a really strong feeling one way or the other about that. It's just that every option, there was no other option that even came close.

Shawna Gann (29:37)
You're talking about like on these forms where it says first, usually it's first, right? It's like, are you Hispanic? Not Hispanic. And then if you say yes or no, if you say yes, then the next question is what's your race? And so then you have to pick a race.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (29:49)
Correct. You have to pick and the boxes are like, none of them are me basically. And I don't think there's an other where you can just be like, I'm Mestizo or I'm mixed or I'm like a thousand things. And like the average Latinx person I think would readily say that like we are a mix of African, European and indigenous cultures. And it's like the ratio is what changes, but.

Shawna Gann (29:55)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (30:15)
That is essentially what all of us are. And so I would like to check that off, but that's not an option. So what I did for a very long time was I picked White. And I have to tell you that for a long time, I didn't feel anything picking that. was just like, think one day I decided that that was the closest thing to me and that's what I picked. And I would say as I got older and I got a little bit more informed, I was like, ooh, that's.

that just does not feel very good for me to be picking that box. Like I need to pick, find a different box. But like really didn't, I don't think I identified with any of the other boxes. I'm like, what do I do? And like, these are like required fields. Finally now I do pick two or more races. So I'm picking that. Yeah. And I do it. And even that I feel a little bit nervous because I'm like, I don't know if I like really identify with that, but like I just.

Shawna Gann (30:55)
because they made it available.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (31:06)
told you that most Latinx people are European, African, and indigenous. So technically I am two or more races. But I identify most as a Latina. That's my history and I do acknowledge it. But I just wish there was a way to be brown. I don't know, or tan, or I don't know. So anyway, that's something new for me.

Shawna Gann (31:27)
Yeah, now I get you.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (31:35)
And I'm still like stepping into it and really owning it and being like, yeah, that is what I am. But I just wanted to share that because that's part of my journey. And I do feel like the Latinx community, colorism is a thing for us too, very much so, more than.

I ever probably acknowledged or cared to acknowledge, yeah, cared to acknowledge, because I feel like we're all like the same. It's like we are actually so different.

Shawna Gann (32:06)
Yeah,

I think you're right. Like, I also acknowledge that colorism is there, but it's a painful thing. It's easy in, psychologically speaking, and sociologically speaking.

to do the "us/ them" thing and be like, yeah, those people over there oppress us. Those people have racist tendencies, not us. We're the ones that are. But then whenever you have to look within your own group and acknowledge that there's mistreatment there too, it's hard to do that. You don't want to do that. So you kind of paused and you're like, I didn't care to acknowledge it for a while. And I just wanted to validate that. Like I get that.

Because no one wants to feel like they're doing a bad thing or like they're a bad person. And again, a lot of these things stem from way before us. The biases, the stereotypes that have been passed down. Yeah.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (32:57)
They're very embedded in the culture. Yeah, they're very embedded. You don't even realize it. the things that I won't get into details about things that I heard in my childhood, but they were very racist comments about mostly the Black community that I heard in my household. now, you know, and when I was probably 17 or 18, I was like, I don't think that's true. You know, like I'm like, and then when I

to college, was like, that is totally not true. But there was a lot of messaging that I received that I had to unlearn and be like, I have evidence to the contrary. So I have a belief system. You know, I'm going to hopefully break this cycle and introduce a different belief system into my family.

Shawna Gann (33:30)
There you go.

Yeah.

And I do believe we have made lots of steps and we're in better places now. And hopefully we can continue to get better at that.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (33:47)
100%. The other thing I was just going to say is how weird it is that those questions, they're everywhere and people just check them off. And I don't think some people realize how triggering and challenging and complicated it is for some people to answer those questions. You're literally like, don't even, where we started, we're like, who are you? I'm like, I don't like.

Shawna Gann (34:07)
I know.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (34:12)
I'm still trying to figure it out and it's like how is that possible but like I'm still getting comfortable with like my answers to these questions and it's like they seem pretty benign but they're not. They're not benign.

Shawna Gann (34:18)
Yeah.

It's not. It isn't. And when you have to try to fit yourself and force yourself into a category, it denies who you actually are, which

can't be defined by boxes on a page. That being said, breaking news.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (34:36)
Are the boxes changing? Is that the breaking news? Yay!

Shawna Gann (34:38)
They are changing, yes. Yes, so way back five years ago in season one, my co-host was Shannon and she and I walked to the National Mall in DC and interviewed people and asked about what they thought about the census potentially changing.

[Clip from 2020 Season 1 Episode: Coming to Our Census]

The Obama administration had wanted to add instead of like, just the race boxes with the Hispanic, not Hispanic line. That was going to be its own, I'm doing air quotes again, race category. And then there was going to be a MENA category, M-E-N-A, which is Middle Eastern and North African. Because that's a whole other group of people that's like, I'm not White, but I'm also not Black, and I'm also not this. And so a lot of them just checked the White box. And now we...

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (35:26)
Correct.

Shawna Gann (35:32)
over, I think it was in the year 2000, you could finally check more than one race or two or more races. And then in the 2010 and 2020 census collection, you could write in something. But then the census was like, my God, how are we gonna do all these write-ins? Like, how are we gonna handle this? The Trump administration did not want to use the same, want to use the proposed census with the MENA category.

and the Hispanic Latinx category, but I just saw that it's now coming back. So Biden administration took it back up. for, they usually do like a midway. So, we'll see how it goes, And then in 2030, there should be new forms, which hopefully these other look at, she's dancing y'all these other bureaucratic

that we have to fill out all the time will probably, follow the lead. a little closer, a little closer.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (36:33)
success. Like I said, just don't, you know, clearly it's probably been White people that have been putting these forms together and they're like, eh, the other, you know, whatever.

Shawna Gann (36:43)
Yes, ma'am.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (36:46)
everybody else. So I do feel like finally we're probably getting more inclusive voices in this conversation that are acknowledging these little nuances because you know there's a lot of us that don't fit in those boxes. That's just not there's not enough boxes right now to to for all of us to identify with so that's great news.

Kat Aragon (37:01)
to stop.

Shawna Gann (37:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kat Aragon (37:05)
I have a question for you guys and then for listeners too, because we've actually been through this silly conversation. but we were in line getting our vaccine shots and I had to go and do our our boxes.

And my kids, obviously, because I am of mixed race, are also with their father being from El Salvador and everything. They can check any of the boxes, all the boxes. And we're up there, and one of my kids goes, so can I just put White because I don't know what's about to happen. I feel like I could have privilege if I checked this box instead.

Shawna Gann (37:31)
We'll check all the boxes.

What is that? Wait, you have not shared this!

Kat Aragon (37:46)
And I'm like, dang, that is so like realistic. Like, I feel like I can have privilege if I just click check this. Like, will they give me the good shot? Like this literally was like in her head. Like it was, we knew nothing about nothing, but we were just trusting, you know? So, and I was like, that's such a real question. Like.

Shawna Gann (37:49)
Hold up!

Wow. No, you did not share that story. That's the first time I ever heard that.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (38:07)
He's like, I'm step into my White privilege. Come on now.

Kat Aragon (38:07)
No, for real, it's like, are we doing? We know we want to do this. don't know what, like, are they going to give us the good stuff or the bad stuff? Like, it's like, why don't I just go ahead and put the safe choice? I was like, gosh, this is crazy that this is even a thought going through, like, a 20-year-old's head, you know? So I was like, maybe I need to pick what's going to protect me, you know? Isn't that sad? It's like sad, funny, sad, but yeah, like, interesting. Yeah.

Shawna Gann (38:18)
My word.

Wow, well people been trying

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (38:32)
some wild times we livin' in.

Shawna Gann (38:35)
People have been trying to survive for centuries. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. And Hady, it wasn't even just like there's not enough boxes. Back in the day, the census taker used to just decide for you what your race was. They would just look at you and be like, and you're going down as this, and you're going down as this.

Kat Aragon (38:37)
No, for real.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (38:47)
That's, that's, you know, only one.

Kat Aragon (38:48)
wow.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (38:53)
Hinate, like all of us, like what, what, what, you know, yeah, that's incredible.

Kat Aragon (38:55)
Wow.

Shawna Gann (38:59)
Mm-hmm. Wow. on that note y'all Yeah, no, this has been a fun conversation and enlightening Thank you so much for joining us today, Hady Any any questions or anything like that for you cat before we before we close?

Kat Aragon (39:01)
Hahaha

Shawna Gann (39:17)
Yeah.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (39:17)
Thank you. This has been really fun for me. I love this. You can invite me back anytime. We can have a cafecito and chit chat and yeah, and spill the tea. It's been really enjoyable. It was a phenomenal conversation.

Shawna Gann (39:23)
Yay!

girl. Yes. What came up for you today, I guess, just as we're talking. Anything new come up for you?

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (39:38)
will say one interesting thing that I found is that, so none of you are Latina, but like I definitely felt a kinship and a shared experience. And yeah, I don't know. Like that was a little weird for me, but cool at the same time. Like it was, I wasn't sure what to expect and I felt very, very.

I hate using the word seen just because not everybody sees, but I just felt validated, like my experience is validated. And I also feel like I use the term woman of color, which I know some people are probably like, girl, what? But like women of color really do. There is a sisterhood kinship shared experience there. And I feel like this to me validates that.

Shawna Gann (40:03)
Mm.

Yeah.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (40:23)
I have my Latina sisters and I have my women of color sisters and then I just have, you know, women that are my sisters, but I feel like I kind of felt my women of color sisterhood, you know, like really coming to the surface today. And I love that. I love that for me.

Shawna Gann (40:38)
I love that too. I think that's fantastic.

well, Hady, thank you so much. You did share where some of your things are. So I'm gonna make sure that folks have access to that in the show notes so they can find you on LinkedIn.

Any shout out or any promotions you want to do?

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (40:57)
If you're interested in spotlighting a Latina in your company or organization, all I need for you is to identify the Latina, pick a date, a time, a location, and I will be there with bells on with my interview questions, and we're going to make that Latina shine. So that's the goal. So if you're interested in that, I'm happy to be a partner in that work.

Kat Aragon (41:13)
love that.

Shawna Gann (41:19)
love it. Well, keep doing your amazingness. There are so many people out here I know that appreciate it. And even the trickle effect, I bet you there's people that don't even know that they could thank you for what you're doing. So you and yourself are a light. So that's just a joy. I love it all. Thanks Kat, thanks for hanging. Rachel had to drop y'all, but she'll be with us next time.

Kat Aragon (41:39)
I'm happy to be here.

Thank you so much for joining us. It's been fun.

Hady Mendez (She/Her/Ella) (41:47)
It's been lovely to meet y'all.