Welcome to Season 3 - Meet Carmen!

Welcome to Season 3 of Our True Colors! I would also like to welcome my co-host for this season, Carmen Watson! She was a guest in Season 2 - I encourage you to go back and check out her episode if you haven't already heard it. This first episode of the season further introduces you to Carmen.

Don't forget to subscribe and follow us on Instagram and new for Season 5, check us out on and YouTube and keep up with True Culture on LinkedIn.

If this is your first time with OTC, check out EPISODE 1: START HERE for more background on the show.

Our True Colors is sponsored by True Culture Coaching & Consulting. Head to our website to find out how True Culture Coaching and Consulting can support you and your organization, and subscribe to our LinkedIn Newsletter, The Culture Clinic, for more great content. You can find us at truecultureconsulting.com where you can also contact us to schedule a free consultation.

Transcript

Intro  00:06
Welcome to our True Colors hosted by Shawna Gann join her as she explores the challenges of being a racial riddle, an ethnic Enigma, and a cultural conundrum. Let's dive in. 

Shawna  00:22
Hey, everyone, I am so glad that we are back from the break. I hope that you've subscribed and that you haven't missed a thing, because here we are starting season three. And this is so exciting, because if you listen to the episodes from season two, you may have heard Carmen Watson and her cousin Rebecca. Both of them are on talking about their experiences getting to know each other through a surprise family reunion. So if you haven't heard those episodes, I encourage you to go back and check it out. But the reason I'm telling you this is because Carmen is with me this season as my co-host. 

Carmen  01:01
Hey, Carmen, how are you? Good, how are you? It's awesome to be back right away.

Shawna  01:04
I'm so glad to have you back. And I'm doing pretty good. I think that what we'll do is just get to know you. So folks know where you're living, what you do just a little bit about you. And that helps as we go through the season talking about various topics, they know your perspective, and, and that sort of thing. So why don't you introduce yourself?

Carmen  01:23
That sounds great. So I'm Carmen, as you probably know, I'm 24. I live in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. So if there's anyone from Canada listening, what's up? But yeah, so I have lived in six provinces and one territory. So the way that Canada is made up is we have provinces and territories. It's kind of the equivalent of each state in the US. And there's kind of a bit of a distinct culture distinct history for each of the territories or provinces. So I got to live a little bit all over I lived pretty far up north when I was really young. I've lived in the predominantly Francophone, so French speaking parts of Canada, I've lived on the prairies. So lots of lots of wheat, lots of canola, all that good stuff. And now I live in British Columbia. So I live in Vancouver, which is you know, you're not that far from mountains. And you're right on the beach for some parts of Vancouver, which is awesome. Um, but yes, that's kind of where I'm from. But there's a little bit more I think history in terms of who I am. So I am mixed race, I am part Chinese, part European, our family is pretty diverse. We have people in our family from just about all over, I'd say. And there's some cool stories too, about how we connected with certain parts of our family. So that will probably come up a little bit. Throughout this season. One of my cousins actually Rebecca, she and I forgot an episode last season. So she is pretty awesome. That's how the family's pretty awesome. More about me. So I have an undergrad in history and international relations. So I focused quite a bit on questions of indigenous reconciliation, indigenous sovereignty and intersectional feminism. So I'm still learning but I do have a background in those areas. And I kind of work in that same field now. So it's it's been, it's been a cool ride. 

Shawna  03:33
Wow. Yeah, you have such an interesting life. And you're only 24 I kind of missed 24. But that's okay. I'm enjoying the stage of life to listen, I have some questions for you. So in your moving around, you said you lived into the French areas. Do you speak French too?

Carmen  03:52
I do French is for all intents and purposes, my first language. So I didn't go to university in English, or I didn't go to school in English until University. My one of my parents has only ever spoken to me, you know, texted me emailed me all that in French. And then my other parents speaks to me in English, and their French is quite good as well. But it's definitely their second language. I have one brother who is a year younger, and he is probably my favorite person in the world. Yeah, and so we will text each other talk to each other in both in both languages. So yeah,

Shawna  04:33
That's really cool. So I speak a couple of other languages too, but French is not one of them. I literally can remember two things from my French class in university, and that is Kiska say that's always a good one and setting tab like that go to that table and what is or how do you say like kiss kise? 

Carmen  04:53
That’s always a good one

Shawna  04:54
And cest une table, like

Carmen  04:55
That’s good too, 

Shawna  04:56
That’s a table and what is it? How do you say it? Kiss kise?

Carmen  04:57
Yeah, kiss kise like what is it, what is that?

Shawna  05:00
I'm telling you, it's it's been pretty bad. I used to get in trouble because I studied Spanish for, like I started Spanish when I was, I think 12 or something like that. And all the way up. That was my minor. I don't even like to admit this because I'm so out of practice, but it was my, my call my minor when I was getting my bachelor's degree, but somewhere in there, I was like, I went and learned something new. So instead of continuing on, like I was supposed to in Spanish, I just thought I would just take French, why not? Yeah. So my assignments were always like, starting in French and then ending in Spanish, or I would use the wrong word. And the instructor was always like circling the words like this the Spanish and I'm like, Yeah, like, 

Carmen  05:49
I thought it could work. 

Shawna  05:50
Right, next term back, I went into Spanish, I don't know why. But anyway, it was an experience that I won't be testing my French skills with you.

Carmen  05:59
It's funny, because my son, my dad is, you know, sluiten, French flute and English. And he's also fluent in Spanish. So my name Carmen is from this, like French Spanish opera French Spanish, like short novella, I guess, um, and my parents liked it, because it worked in all these different languages. And I guess part of their interest in this, like, multilingual name was that my my dad eventually wanted to teach me Spanish. But here's the issue. My Spanish is not very good. And I think depending on where I am in the world, which is kind of interesting to being a little racially ambiguous is I can't speak Spanish, but people will assume once they know my name. And, you know, again, depending on where I am, that I have at least a grasp of Spanish, which is unfortunately, you know, not always the case. If I haven't brushed up with my little Duo lingual app, but I'm getting there. I'm working on it.

Shawna  06:55
Okay, now. Now. There's nothing about the name Shawna, that says Spanish. But when people see me they think that I must be Latina. Like, not not Spanish, as in from Spain, but usually Latin American and I. And, you know, it's terrible, because they will either speak to me in Spanish directly or ask me if I do speak it. I want so badly to say yes, because I did study it. But I know that whatever they're expecting to come out next is not going to be what I will deliver. So 

Carmen  07:29
Yeah,

Shawna  07:30
I usually say no, 

Carmen  07:31
Like, sorry, no.

Shawna  07:32
Yeah. And the thing is, I can often understand, like, I still understand a lot. And because of the Italian, that helps a lot to write because it's so similar, that I can work it out. And I just usually rip 

Carmen  07:48
Yeah, 

Shawna   07:49
Bush.

Carmen  07:50
Yeah. And I think that's the coolest thing is like, I don't know if they call them the romantic or the Germanic languages. 

Shawna  07:53
But there's a lot these are the romance romantic languages,

Carmen  07:56
The romantic ones. So there's a lot of like connections between, like the way that we render certain terms in French, it's similar across like Spanish and Italian. So same with the different tenses and different nouns, it kind of once you have that, I think, base or that foundation locked in, it's a little bit easier to learn. But I can see how if you're learning all these different ones at once it gets so confusing, because it's like which one's French? Which one? Which one Spanish,

Shawna  08:27
Right? Well, French is more distinctive than Spanish and Italian together. Those two have a very similar, like the ours are the same, you know, things like that. But the French is different. So I have a friend Her name is Valerie, to say that she and I met in Alaska, and she's actually from Guadeloupe, but then she moved to France. And when my husband and I were stationed in Germany when we were living there, I hadn't seen her for like 11 years. And so we decided to meet in Paris. And we met and stayed with Liddy, for I think three days or something like that. Now, Lady does not speak English, or she doesn't speak much. And so the entire time, most of everything that I heard was French, right. And I don't speak it. And I remember one day, we were heading out into the city and her and these neighbors were out on their balcony and they yell down up at home. So I was like, up at home. And I think that's kind of like a happy hour type. Okay, 

Carmen  09:30
Oh, yeah.

Shawna  09:31
Get together. But it's before dinner. Right? And so, at the time, I was trying to understand because they were trying so hard to explain, and Valerie really doesn't speak that much English either, you know, so, I was trying to figure out what Napa hole was, but after the third night of APA Whoa, I got it. I was like, okay, so we drink yummy drinks. And then we have them. 

Carmen  09:48
You're like now I understand. 

Shawna   09:49
Right? And also by day three. I still couldn't speak a word but I was realizing that I could begin to understand just because of the Spanish like it was so helpful. Spanish and Italian. So another thing that you and I have in common is this moving around business.

Carmen  10:04
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Shawna  10:07
Yeah, I love that you have had all those experiences because it gives you in my opinion, a person that is able to live in so many different places gained so much perspective on the world, like you really get a broader sense of how people live. Would you agree with that?

Carmen  10:24
Definitely. And I think a part of it too, is just, it's interesting, because I think it creates this sense of adaptability. Like you're not, you're not going to know everything, and you want to learn, like, I think especially, you know, when you're, you're coming to a new place, and you may believe you don't fit, like, say, the ethnic demographic that exists there, you know, and it's interesting, because I think there's a little bit like, you can put aside your discomfort a little bit easier, you know, so you're not as you're not as scared to learn new things, you're not as scared to look into the history of where you are, and look into the social connections that exist and stuff. I think, to be honest, it's made me like a little bit braver as a person, because it's like, okay, it's a fresh start, what can I learn, you know, what history of the land is there, and there's, there's different social kind of nuances, you know, depending on where you are, and it's, I'm lucky that I had a brother that I could kind of experience all this with, because we're only a year apart, you know, like, we would often go to the same school, you know, I think there's twice that we didn't go to the same school, it was when I was starting kindergarten, he was too young to do Junior kindergarten. So he just he didn't. So that was one year where I was alone at school. And then when I started grade seven, in Ontario, it was combined with the high school, so they combined junior high, and senior high. And so he was at the school that went up to grade six. So that was one year, where we work together. But a lot of these like fresh starts, I think, you know, I was lucky to be able to, like anchor myself in my, my close knit family and kind of, we're all learning stuff for the first time but together.

Shawna  12:01
Right?Yeah, I would say that's the same for us too. Being a military family meant that as a unit, most of the time, we would relocate together. And so even when you feel like you're in a completely new place, there's always that anchor in it. It does 100% make you I think braver as you described. And I think that's because after you've done this once or twice, you realize, okay, I survived that I can totally do this. Not to say that it's easy, every time. But it does get easier. And you do have a bigger sense of security, like I can do it. And I think that flexibility, that adaptability just comes through in so many other ways. Like I feel one thing for me is I changed my career. And so I think major changes in your life are scary, you know, but I feel like having had all of these experiences up to that point, kind of equipped me to say, Okay, take a deep breath, let's step on into this new situation. So maybe not a literal, new, you know, world or setting. But definitely a new world in terms of work.

Carmen  13:22
Yeah, yeah, 

Shawna  13:23
I think it's a big deal to be able to move around like that.

Carmen  13:26
I agree. I think it's, it's kind of like one of those things where it's a result. And you're, you're kind of in a totally new setting, and you kind of just have to let go of your fears and just be like, Okay, this is something that I haven't done before. This is something I'm I don't know all the intricacies about, but I'm willing to give it a shot, you know, and I think like, that's a really great skill to ask if people are able to just kind of be like, okay, we're starting at, maybe not zero, but we're starting Yoda a way lower level of comfort and knowledge, but we're gonna get there.

Shawna  13:57
Right, and to be okay with not knowing everything. 

Carmen  14:00
Yeah. 

Shawna  14:01
Also to forgive yourself when things don't go maybe quite as you had planned.

Carmen  14:05
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Shawna  14:09
So another thing you brought up, Carmen was this aspect of intersectionality. And that is so important for this show. Because we talk so much about racial ambiguity and what it means to be multi ethnic or even if you're somebody that's mono racial, but maybe you still present racially ambiguously to people. Or you know, for people who maybe are transracial adoptees, you don't always feel like you fit in one particular space. And you know, when you begin to layer all of these different aspects like are you part of the minority group, racially speaking, you know, depending on gender depending on where you live your language, you know, class like so many different levels that can intersect that, number one, make up who you are and your identity. And then it also impacts how you experience life, in terms of how other people categorize you, and so on.

Carmen  15:12
Yeah, and I think, you know, it's interesting too, because I think a part of how we identify in terms of like, whether it's our racial or ethnic identities, or our sexuality or gender, like, we're at a place now, where there's been a lot of like historical and contemporary contributions to even being able to, like, express those words, you know, it's interesting, like, I'm mixed, I'm part Chinese, I'm part white, I'm Sis, I'm straight. So I think to be able to even just talk about race, for instance, like, I don't think my identity would have been something at some points in history where I wanted, I would have wanted to admit, like, it would have been illegal in some places to have parents who married who were of two different ethnic backgrounds, right, and things like that. So I think it's a big deal to even have the language to express the identities that we have, you know, and you're talking about intersectionality. And I am a big, big fan of intersectionality. And the research that goes into that. And I think, if we're not taking an intersectional approach, I think we're missing a big part of people's identities. Like if we don't kind of approach things with an intersectional lens, we're leaving out a part of the story. And then I think a part of the work to fill in those gaps and stories falls onto the shoulders of the people who, like they don't necessarily have the social power to have systems backing them to fill in those blanks,

Shawna  16:38
Right. Yeah, that's something that, you know, we're talking about the dialogue that's occurring these days that just never did before. And it's, it's been interesting to see. On one hand, there are groups of people who don't want to take responsibility for the education of others. It's like, well, we kind of live in a time where everything that you need to know is at your fingertips, but you have to be motivated and willing to self educate.

Carmen  17:12
Mm hmm. 

Shawna  17:13
On the other hand, there's a feeling of Yes, that is true. But sometimes people don't know what they don't know

Carmen  17:15
Exactly.

Shawna  17:17
So like, what do I even look up? Where do I start? How do I begin to approach this? I see both arguments or ways of thinking about it. But I think the most important thing is that the dialogue is happening.

Carmen  17:29
Absolutely. Yeah. I agree. Like I so my dad is he's a person of color. And he's Chinese. And we were, we were talking about this a little bit earlier. And, you know, it's like these conversations that people are noticing now, like, I can only speak from my experience, like in our family, like, we would sometimes be like, Oh, that was like, someone was like, really rude or belligerent in that instance. And now we're kind of like, I have the confidence to go back and be like, that was racism, I experienced racism. So it's like, these discussions happen. But I think like, as discourse evolves, as public education evolves, as people's consciousness evolves, like, we're able to kind of have more, like a more in depth look on what's been happening. So like, I think, especially now, like the recognition of systemic racism, like people are realizing, okay, now we can put a word to how we've been treated our entire lives, you know, or the challenges we face our entire lives. It's validating, in a way and at this point in my life, I have empathy. And I have the energy to educate people who are willing to learn, you know, if someone says, like, what is what is institutional, or systemic racism look like, I have the energy at this point in my life, if they're really willing to engage in a conversation to explain that to them. And I don't I don't fault anyone who doesn't have the energy or the capacity or the empathy at this point to do it. Because it's, it's a lot of work to do. And I think, you know, when you have the capacity and a part of it, maybe it's privileged, like, I have the privilege of a university education. So, you know, I can talk about what I learned in school, and this is how it was explained to me. And some ways that's a more concise way that some people are willing to listen is like, Okay, well, what experts say about this, you know,

Shawna  19:12
Yeah, what's it like, in Canada? What's the climate like there? 

Carmen  19:16
I think, you know, I'll just first start off by saying, I've never lived in the US, I think, like, I'm learning from the outside, like, I have taken quite a few classes on, I took one in particular, like, the history of American culture, and like race in America. And, you know, I will say that was like, a four month course, because of the way semesters are divided, you know, a few hours a week, so I don't have the lived experience of being a person of color in the United States. But I do think like there's a bit of a reckoning in Canada in the same way that people are being forced in the US to kind of acknowledge the prevalence of inequity, whether that's race or gender or sexual orientation. Within the systems that are supposed to serve us, whether that's like, our political institutions, like our public servant institutions, and then the elected side of things, you know, the courts, a big topic right now is police forces. There was a history before Canada existed as Canada, there are so many histories, there are indigenous nations that existed. Usually, the term people use this since time immemorial. So before we can remember, and their history is there, and I think like Canada's history, as we present, it is often one of immigration of one of where people came here to kind of, you know, people will say, live a better life and things like that. But I think there's, that's a really plain and simplified way of acknowledging that we, as a country, you know, we were there was like, Upper Canada, lower Canada, British Columbia, things like that, like, we, when we try to encourage, say, Chinese populations to come to Canada, it was under the idea that like, you're going to work for us, and then we're going to send you back, because we don't necessarily need you to stay slash want you to stay. So there are pockets of Canada that have very different populations based on the histories of how people came here. And one thing I think, to remember is when we talk about Canada is we, as a system, really landlocked, specific indigenous groups. And so we kind of took them away from their traditional homelands and ancestral lands and said, this is where you're going to live. Now, you can't leave. This is noted as your area, it was a lot smaller in all cases, then, you know, the traditional areas. And that's like, that's a bit of a long history. But I think in general, Canada, we do have the same problems, the same challenges, same issues that we see in the US, I think, when we talk about systemic racism, Canada's we have this police force called the RCMP, which is the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, which itself has a really toxic history of how they were created. But their head of the RCMP said in, I think, like, the last month or two that there was no systemic racism in the police force across Canada or in police forces across Canada. And then, you know, within a few days, she backtracked, and she said, Do I think there is racism in our police force? Yes. You know, I hesitate to use the words systemic or institutionalized racism, because I don't understand it. And she's white. And I think like, that's a similar issue that the states is having, like, I think, when you ask someone who is not affected by the term you're using to do a review and be like, Do you notice this? I don't think they're always going to pick up on the intricacies of it. Like, if you had asked a person of color, someone who isn't his gender, like if they believed in systemic racism, systemic discrimination in our system, I think the answer would have been different. I think we have extremely high ranking officials in this country, whether they're elected or, you know, really high ranking public servants, who would say absolutely, we do have systemic racism, and they're, you know, they're persons of color. So I think we see it in things like incarceration rates, Canada, statistically, we have a much higher prevalence of indigenous and persons of color and just bipoc in general, in prisons. And that's like, there's a whole debate there about like the over policing over prosecuting the whole rhetoric of being tough on crime and not equating to just more prosecutions and more convictions. And so sometimes there's debate about do you pick things that are easy to prosecute? And so where do you find those people who are easy to prosecute? But yeah, like, I think, I love my country. I love the history of my family coming here, my family were immigrants, you know, and my great grandpa, we have his head tax certificate, which was a policy that made it almost impossible for Chinese people to come to Canada. And you had to pay a really crazy sum at the time, like it was equivalent to thousands and thousands of dollars,

Shawna  24:10
Just as just like for a visa or for residency or for

Carmen  24:14
Residency to arrive in Canada, and it was done towards Chinese people as a way to try and yeah, as a way to like there's a full name, but it's usually the short name is the Chinese head tax. And then policy eventually, when they stopped that they stopped that like before the 40s they developed this policy called the Exclusion Act. And that was essentially policy to make immigration really difficult and just make it

Shawna  24:39
It was literally called the inclusion act.

Carmen  24:42
Yeah, like I think it was, there's like some pejorative terms in it. But I think the shorthand name is the Exclusion Act, and like that's the Act was eventually like, abolished. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't mean that the social beliefs and like, public consciousness changed as soon as that act was repealed, you know, yeah. So yeah, like the official name, apparently was the Chinese Immigration Act known today as the Chinese Exclusion Act, and it was passed by our parliament, right, banning Chinese immigration to Canada, I think there was like a very, very rare exception that you could have. So some Chinese people could come. But there's a period in Canadian history where like, there's such low numbers of immigration for certain groups, and it's because of policies like these. So, you know, like, I think it's important to remember that just because we've made progress doesn't mean that we're going to cap it there, just because we don't have that act anymore, or what we think would be equivalent in today's era. Like, that is not enough to say that we're an equitable country. You know, I think we've celebrated a lot in our country, some of our advancements, and that's amazing. You know, we have right now a more, we call it cabinet like the prime minister and ministers, it's, there's a lot of, I think it's like 5050, or it's about 5050. In terms of the male to female ratio. We have like the head of the RCMP is a woman. So those are things like in itself. Yes, that's for celebrating, but I also think we can dig a lot deeper, we can push ourselves to be better. And and one thing you'll hear in Canada, in a non-joking ways, well, at least we're not as bad as the state when it comes to race relations. Yeah. And like, I don't mean any disrespect to any Americans listening, or any of my Canadian friends who said that. But I think sometimes we have this false sense of security, because, you know, we're like, well, we didn't have this many legal shootings, we didn't have, you know, a leader calling something, you know, an S whole country, but it's like, just because we don't have that level of things that we know are problematic doesn't mean that we're absolved of responsibility to do better ourselves.

Shawna  26:56
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, there's so much I want to dive into first thing I want to say is, we have a lot more similarities, probably, than people would think. But then the subtle differences, at least in the perspective that you provided, you know, I think, kind of resonated with me, too. So first of all, just like Canadians, Americans tend to start thinking about the beginning of our country, as when was colonial America. And, you know, the Europeans were coming over and kind of sticking out their piece of land and deciding what would be theirs as a colony. And obviously, there were the indigenous people here, right, like we had Native Americans. And similar to what you described, you know, we we have reservations for the first people, I get frustrated, because it's somehow people forget it. 

Carmen  27:50
Yeah. 

Shawna  27:51
You know, like, our country started well, like, okay, politically speaking, you can, you can say that. But we have to always acknowledge and not just in November, that people were there before us. And you know, one time I said something to someone, a friend of mine, and every once in a while I think about it. And I'm still trying to decide about whether or not I feel bad that I said it. But also, I think that people of color, and particularly in the US black people have been so careful and have tiptoed around so much because we don't want to offend anyone, either. But then it's like, hold on a second. So I, we were at kind of a get together and a friend of mine. She was very passionately talking about her ancestors who were immigrants to the US. And she in this passion said something like, Yes, well, my I think it was like a great grandfather, my great grandfather, what came straight off the boat, and he started his life. And I said, Yeah, well, my ancestors came off the boat too, but they didn't intend to come. Yeah, 

Carmen  28:57
Yeah. 

Shawna  28:58
It was kind of like record scratch, you know, 

Carmen  29:01
Mic drop. 

Shawna  29:02
Right? Well, but it's just, let's not forget it. 

Carmen  29:05
Absolutely. 

Shawna   29:06
Not everybody came to America, or even to Canada or anything like to seek a better life. Y'all have freedom. Some people had no choice. I was really did have freedom, and then they were displaced. So it's like, let's not just ignore that. And I have another friend who, one time we were musing and wavy, we were listening to oldies. And she was like, Don't you wish we lived in the 50s? Like, that's my favorite time. I wish I grew up in the 50s. And I said, Yeah, would have been cool if I was white.

Carmen  29:38
Yeah. Yeah, like, my fingers, My fingers,

Shawna  29:45
But it's like, it's this default mentality. 

Carmen  29:51
Absolutely

Shawna  29:52
That what whatever is American must be what the white experience, like maybe. Unfortunately, you've whitewashed your view. But please don't try to whitewash Mine, you know, like, No, I don't wish I grew up in this in the 50s. I'm grateful even though we're struggling now that I'm living in the US now. 

Carmen  30:09
Yeah. 

Shawna  30:10
Because the 50s Oh my god, that was before the Civil Rights Act like all of this stuff. But people, they just don't, they don't think about it. 

Carmen  30:17
Yeah. 

Shawna  30:18
You also talked about institutionalized racism and the fact that if it's not, if you're not a person of that community that you don't necessarily recognize it, or a person may not understand it. And this has become a major part of some of the dialogue we've been having, even in our workplace, because it affects the workplaces. It's like, are you checking your biases, as you're deciding who to hire or, you know, selecting people for promotions and things like that. And I was speaking with someone one time, I love how she described this. She said, you know, people don't see racism in systems. It's like air. You don't know or recognize or even appreciate air until you can't breathe.

Carmen  31:01
Yeah, yeah.

Shawna  31:03
How many times a day do you walk around and go, Oh, take a breath now. Okay, and you never write, unless for some reason, you're short of breath. And so if you have grown up your entire life, gone through life, and every step you take your you are aware of your blackness, or your color, or whatever that makes you marginalized. Even if it's not race related, of course, it's in your mind, it's at the forefront. But if you are straight, white male, between the ages of you know, like 20 and 40, and you're Christian, you're probably doing okay, and not thinking about it so much. 

Carmen  31:42
Yeah.

Shawna  31:43
And so, those are the things I think that, you know, we are bringing more awareness, but now it's like, Okay, guys, I'm pretty sure we're all feeling aware. Everyone's aware. Everyone's right. Good. We know what books to read. Okay, now act? Absolutely.

Carmen  32:02
Absolutely, you know, people talk about, and I know that they're not like keyboard warriors. But like, all the people who've been posting kind of these quotes about we need change, or being like, this is a great book to read. You know, I think that's amazing. But I think the second step is like doing the actual work that comes along with having read those books. You know, like, it's interesting, because in companies people talk about corporate social responsibility. And usually that's like, okay, we, you know, use this many tons of, I don't know, be emit this many tons of co2 a year to produce this. So we're going to offset it by paying this company and plant like 100, trees, whatever, that's great. But I think sometimes, like, there's an interesting amount of social responsibility when we're sharing all these resources. During the moment that we're in right now. It's like to continue that work, whether, like I have privilege in terms of I'm sometimes white passing, you know, and like I have the privilege of whiteness in my life. And I think one thing that I can do is to commit to keep learning and to commit to keep challenging the status quo, just because things are better for my group. Now, my demographic now doesn't mean that this is the time to stop like, this is the time to keep pushing, this is the time to commit to keep going.

Shawna  33:11
And absolutely as Carmen, when we went through that first week after the murder of George Floyd, it was heart wrenching. And that's when people were really like, oh, gosh, well, one of two things happen either people finally saw it. And they're like, wow, this is really happening. Or people started to think, what's going on? There's more violence now things are starting to get more and it's like, No, no, no, no, no, no. Violence against black people, and violence against other persons of color. Is that a centuries old? 

Carmen  33:55
Yeah, 

Shawna  33:56
Like there's suppression, there's blockage. There's so many barriers. And we need those barriers removed. Now I tell everybody that I can, please make sure you're registered. Please make sure you're prepared to vote and when the time comes, vote, and if that means because of the Coronavirus, you mail in your ballot, make sure you're registered and you ask for your ballot early. So it gets there. 

Carmen  34:17
Yeah, 

Shawna  34:18
What means you're going to mask up and go stand in line at the polls. Then have your plan, decide what time you're going to go. And when you're going to go stand in line even if it means standing in line because guess what, I'll be there right with you. 

Carmen  34:28
Yeah, 

Shawna  34:29
Because that is what it is. You know, recently someone said, you know, we gotta pray. We gotta pray this man out of office, and I was like, 

Carmen  34:37
You got this man out. 

Shawna  34:38
Right. I was like, um, I think we've been praying for about 400 years, it's time to vote.

Carmen  34:42
Impeachment is not gonna stop him like it's

Shawna  34:47
Exactly and we need and then even if you take the politics out of it, and you start to look at workplace policy and practice, reading books is great. I have a whole list of books if anybody wants, you know, I could just give you some books too. To read videos to watch articles to read, but the truth is you need to start acting. Look at your practices. Look at your policies, who are you excluding?

Carmen  35:10
Mm hmm.

Shawna  35:11
How are you? Including, you know? So anyway, wow. Oh my gosh, Carmen, I can already see this gonna be a good season girl.

Carmen  35:18
I'm excited. This is like we are on a roll. Let's keep it up.

Shawna  35:23
That's right. Well, we've got so many interesting people. This season, we'll be talking to coaches, therapists, we've got professors, authors, filmmakers, just people coming with such rich perspective. And people telling their personal stories, too. Because I think that's important. I think it's great to have experts in the field. But then also just hearing people that share our stories, but maybe a little bit differently. 

Carmen  35:56
Absolutely. 

Shawna  35:57
I'm really looking forward to it.

Carmen  35:57
Me too.

Shawna  35:59
Anything else that you'd like us to know about you before we close today? 

Carmen  36:04
About me? Well, you know, little things like I love absolutely love. My poor roommate hates it. But I love British detective shows. If anyone out there has good recommendations, send them my way. I love them. But in all seriousness, I think, you know, if there's one thing that I could say about myself is like, I it's taken me a long time to get to where I'm at in terms of feeling comfortable with my identity, feeling proud of my identity. And like if you're a listener, and you're not there yet, like it's okay. Like, you don't have to be there right now. But there are ways to get there. You know, and I encourage you,

Shawna  36:41
Yeah, and if I can add to that, I don't know that we ever truly get there like that. There's like a destination. I think we evolve. And we learn more about ourselves. And I think that the key is to accept and love yourself. 
Carmen  36:56
Mm hmm. Definitely. Definitely.

Shawna  36:59
Well, that's about it for this episode. You got to meet Carmen, she'll be with me throughout the season. We'll be talking about all kinds of things related to racial ambiguity, identity belonging, mostly with a focus on self-care and wellness for this particular season. But that doesn't mean it'll be limited to that. So as always, you can reach out if you have a topic that you are interested in or question, or perhaps you can suggest someone that you think should be on the show, or maybe you want to be on the show, so you can write to me directly @truecolors, @ShawnaGann.com or find the website truecolorscast.com, or find me on Instagram; @truecolorspodcast. And in the meantime, be safe out there guys. Share a smile with someone and please find an opportunity to make someone feel welcome